1968 Topps Double Print Question

[goheels]

All the old price guides list the 1968 Seaver #45 as a double print, but I have never seen a list of exactly what 68 1st series cards were DPed.

My math goes like this--109 cards in the series and the customary repeating the 67 Checklist 1 (Kaat) makes 110 cards or 10 rows. Assuming the Seaver row (Merritt/Seaver/Brandon/Kostro/Pavletich/AL ERA/Alley/RSmith/Holtzman/Sutherland/Pizarro) is one row, what is the other row?

If there are 132 cards or two extra rows on one half sheet, does that mean that the other half sheet had the same two rows repeated, or were there another two different rows repeated?

I know it is a value issue but the guidebooks never listed cards other than Seaver as DP.

I have seen partial proof sheets but not actual full sheets.

Thoughts?

[savedfrommyspokes]

Carlton,
My guess (after viewing the sheet in the post in the link), is that there is one true DP card in the first series and it is the 107 card ...this card would be the only DP in the series (as you have mentioned, the DP is the cause of the different meshes styles on the front). Therefore, Topps would print these 110 (with the DP) cards on the first 10 (of 12) rows of the sheet. The last two rows on the sheet would be the same as the first two. On the second sheet, the first row would be the same as the third row from the first sheet(the first two rows of the 110 card cycle are on the first sheet). This cycle would repeat and repeat from one sheet to the next. So depending on any given individual sheet from the first series, there will be two of (21 or 22 cards) and one of 109 cards(including two of the 107 DPs).

The sheet in the link is from the 2nd series with 87 cards, and you can see this trend on that sheet. I would think the first series would be the same

http://forums.collectors.com/message...62&STARTPAGE=2

[toppcat]

deleted riginal it's 88 then 44 repeat-sorry!

[goheels]

There are 87 cards in the second series, 110 through 196. You can see in your picture that the 88 cards (11 across x 8 rows) includes the 192 3rd series card, as well as the 107 card which was part of the first series as a preview and now repeated here in the second series.

Rows 1-8 end with the Ryan rookie at the left end of the 8th row. You have at the bottom of this half sheet rows 1-4 again; the other half sheet would be rows 5-8 followed by rows 1-8. In that way you have exactly 3 copies of all 88 cards making up 264 cards.

As long as the series had either 88 cards or 132 cards then there would be no SPs or DPs.

Topps wanted to make sure there were plenty CL cards for the kids.

3rd series: 87 cards (197-283) plus card 192 CL3=88 cards x3= 264 on both half sheets.

4th series: 87 cards (284-370) plus card 278 CL4= 88 cards x3=264
5th series: 87 cards (371-457) plus card 356 CL5=88 cards x3=264
6th series: 87 cards (458-533) plus card 454 CL6=88 cards x3=264
7th series: 65 cards (534-598) plus card 518 CL7=66 cards x4=264.

The first series is different. The others have no shortage or extra cards.

[goheels]

Dave,
I count 8 plus 4 on that 5th series sheet, not 9 plus 3.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by goheels

There are 87 cards in the second series, 110 through 196. You can see in your picture that the 88 cards (11 across x 8 rows) includes the 192 3rd series card, as well as the 107 card which was part of the first series as a preview and now repeated here in the second series.

Rows 1-8 end with the Ryan rookie at the left end of the 8th row. You have at the bottom of this half sheet rows 1-4 again; the other half sheet would be rows 5-8 followed by rows 1-8. In that way you have exactly 3 copies of all 88 cards making up 264 cards.

As long as the series had either 88 cards or 132 cards then there would be no SPs or DPs.

Topps wanted to make sure there were plenty CL cards for the kids.

3rd series: 87 cards (197-283) plus card 192 CL3=88 cards x3= 264 on both half sheets.

4th series: 87 cards (284-370) plus card 278 CL4= 88 cards x3=264
5th series: 87 cards (371-457) plus card 356 CL5=88 cards x3=264
6th series: 87 cards (458-533) plus card 454 CL6=88 cards x3=264
7th series: 65 cards (534-598) plus card 518 CL7=66 cards x4=264.

The first series is different. The others have no shortage or extra cards.

Carlton, the 1st series with 110 card series could be printed 6 times on 5 unique 132 card sheets(unique in regards to the order of the rows). So, in the 1st series there would be 5 unique 132 card sheets, in the 2nd through 6th series there would be 2 unique 132 card sheets, and the 7th series would need just one 132 card sheet.

[toppcat]

Quite right-sheesh, I need to wear my glasses more often!

[goheels]

I remember your erudite discussion years back of the complex 67 high series and the analysis. Seems like most notorious SPs occurred in the higher series--66 67 and 71 immediately come to mind.

What about the 68 1st series? Weird series anyway.

By the way, there is a variation from cropping of the inset photo on the Kaat 67 1st CL card. Slight difference in the distance from the top of the inset circle to the top of his cap, but very subtle. There is a difference in the grain/burlap pattern as well at the top of both of those cards.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Originally Posted by goheels

There are 87 cards in the second series, 110 through 196. You can see in your picture that the 88 cards (11 across x 8 rows) includes the 192 3rd series card, as well as the 107 card which was part of the first series as a preview and now repeated here in the second series.

Rows 1-8 end with the Ryan rookie at the left end of the 8th row. You have at the bottom of this half sheet rows 1-4 again; the other half sheet would be rows 5-8 followed by rows 1-8. In that way you have exactly 3 copies of all 88 cards making up 264 cards.

As long as the series had either 88 cards or 132 cards then there would be no SPs or DPs.

Topps wanted to make sure there were plenty CL cards for the kids.

3rd series: 87 cards (197-283) plus card 192 CL3=88 cards x3= 264 on both half sheets.

4th series: 87 cards (284-370) plus card 278 CL4= 88 cards x3=264
5th series: 87 cards (371-457) plus card 356 CL5=88 cards x3=264
6th series: 87 cards (458-533) plus card 454 CL6=88 cards x3=264
7th series: 65 cards (534-598) plus card 518 CL7=66 cards x4=264.

The first series is different. The others have no shortage or extra cards.

The 6th series has 77 cards(including the 454 CL), so it would not have been evenly spread out among 2 unique sheets....so there may be some DP from this series.

Here is a link to a sheet from this series:

http://www.legendaryauctions.com/Lot...entoryid=79951