Pennant materials

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

Some of my pennants. Coincidentally to the conversation, the green pennant in the first picture is the only Senators pennant--of which I have acquired a pretty good knowledge dealing in mostly Washington stuff for many years--that would fit the category of a possible Ad Flag or other repro. This example is made of a very thick, substantial material and with heavy paint. Whenever I would see this pennant at a dealer's table, more often than not it would be of a much stiffer material with thinner paint, and the argument raged over the years as to whether that version was some kind of repro, although they never looked brand new but with some age, at least. The information about Ad Flag and their later redos of earlier pennants would seem to have solved that mystery, but it needs a different and less pejorative tag than "repro." "Restrike," maybe?

Hank, cool Washington pennants! Here are my favorites from the Senators ... (I’d have sent this as a DM but don’t see how to attach pics) ... I believe Mark has the incredibly awesome Clark Griffith pennant?

[ooo-ribay]

I do the “tapping” thing, too, but not on concrete or tile. Busted a few rigid holder tips, doing that.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by ooo-ribay

I do the “tapping” thing, too, but not on concrete or tile. Busted a few rigid holder tips, doing that.

Me, too.

[perezfan]

Foxey Griff....

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Foxey Griff....

What a fantastic pennant, just beautiful ..

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by perezfan

Foxey Griff....

Foxey Griff is off the charts! The Philly pennant is gorgeous, too. In my pictures, you can see that I have an Ad Flag Senators version with white paint only, no tassles, etc. Maybe "knockoff" would be a good term for what Ad Flag did with these cheapy versions of more elaborate pennants done by others.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Hank, cool Washington pennants! Here are my favorites from the Senators ... (I’d have sent this as a DM but don’t see how to attach pics) ... I believe Mark has the incredibly awesome Clark Griffith pennant?

You had to do that, didn't you, Greg! Just kidding, those are fantastic for a D.C. guy, as is Mark's. The only thing that would top any of those is the Walter Johnson version of the 1924 pennant, which my friend Kent Feddeman snagged off eBay for $400 about 20 years and auctioned for 15K. To my knowledge, that's the only example known of that one, anyone know who has it?

[thetahat]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

You had to do that, didn't you, Greg! Just kidding, those are fantastic for a D.C. guy, as is Mark's. The only thing that would top any of those is the Walter Johnson version of the 1924 pennant, which my friend Kent Feddeman snagged off eBay for $400 about 20 years and auctioned for 15K. To my knowledge, that's the only example known of that one, anyone know who has it?

Thanks Hank .. wow, $400? Amazing. I remember when it was auctioned for $15,000. I don’t recall seeing another like that one or like mine. The picture in the auction catalog showed a bunch like mine hanging at a celebration dinner.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by thetahat

Thanks Hank .. wow, $400? Amazing. I remember when it was auctioned for $15,000. I don’t recall seeing another like that one or like mine. The picture in the auction catalog showed a bunch like mine hanging at a celebration dinner.

Yours may be the only one known, as they might have been made only for the 1924 Washington banquet held before the World Series, where a few of them were on the wall. Or they might have been sold at the Series, but if so you would think there would be a few around. That picture of the 1924 banquet with your pennant, by the way, came from the 1925 banquet program, of which I have a copy.

[Duluth Eskimo]

Not that anyone might care, but Hank has brought up this Senators pennant on multiple occasions so I will elaborate a little. This pennant is from very late 50's to 60's. These are other baseball pennants that are from that same series and were produced at the same time. They all have the same characteristics, exact same pennant body material, same piping, etc. The "weight" of the felt is the same. That is what I am referring when I talk about how a pennant "feels".

The second photo shows other that I know are from that same series. The Green Bay Packers World Champions, Buffalo Bills, the Chicago Bears one with the quarterback throwing the ball to end zone, Denver Broncos brown pennant with yellow horse, and others. I believe the Dolphins one to be from that same series as well. I believe the Colts too could be from this same series, but i'm not 100% on this one.

The San Francisco pennant I believe to be earlier. Obviously we have all the this one and other similar ones like the Cleveland Browns, etc. Same maker, close to same time frame, but different series.

Lastly, the Chicago Bears one. This is an earlier style, with different felt. Different piping (often thicker and more supple) and stitching can vary.

When I look closer at the Packers pennant photo on my computer with a larger screen instead of my phone, it does appear to be a stiffer thinner felt. I had originally said 50's, but I could see this one be sold in the early 60's as well based on material used.

Many of these pennants were re-purposed with small added info or dates as they needed to fill a specific game or year. They also used most of the artwork scenes on multiple occasions over the years with multiple fabrics.

With that said, this version was also used earlier than 1960 and most of this style was produced with the earlier very supple felt that fell apart very easily when exposed to the elements. The earlier ones also seemed to "fall apart" a lot easier than the new felt like the ones I showed in the larger group. To me (at least for this maker which Kyle says is AdFlag) the make up of the pennant itself tells me a lot more about the date than the style. I don't get in to the makers like you guys do, I just like the visual attributes and designs of pennants from all sports.

People are free to disagree and say I have no idea what i'm talking about, and some already do. This information comes from buying and selling hundreds of pennants. The pennants I mentioned first in my postings are still some of the ones that I purchased from unsold vendor stock from people that used to sell at both Wrigley and Comiskey as well as County stadium in Milwaukee. Most of these groups are gone, but these are some of the last few from that specific purchase. A quick search of Ebay, I could pull another 10 plus styles in to this same group. Many of these pennants were in the same boxes they were packed in from the old days. Sorry I never took photos of any labeling on them. With that, i'm out.

[Duluth Eskimo]

One more thing I will add is that these were of the same group where it appeared that someone cut these by hand with a scissors. Some were perfectly cut, while other appears that a 6 yr old was helping grandpa make them in the garage (which may have been the case).

[perezfan]

Great insights, Jason. I agree with you on all of this...

I was going to suggest that the Dolphins pennant is from a different source than the others (based on being cloth vs. felt, and rare vs. common).

But after looking at it again, I believe you are right.... same maker (AdFlag). This pennant has always cracked me up. Mahi Mahi were sometimes referred to as "Dolphin Fish". Obscure as this is, I can't believe the artist actually depicted the Dolphin Mascot that way (and that an AdFlag exec actually approved it).

Here's another pennant that definitely belongs in that same grouping...