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Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like
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I referred to Newspaper clippings (circa 1909-1910) announcing that ATC was introducing a new Tobacco brand, labelled COUPON. It's bad enough that you constantly try to "trash" anything I present on Net54, but now you are "busting" Jeremy. I do feel sorry for you ! Quote:
And, your 2nd ? here doesn't make any sense. Here is my simulated 48-card sheet comprising of the Major League subjects in the 1910 COUPON set. My educated guess is: this represents a 350-only series sheet which American Lithographic (ALC) "borrowed " to print the 1910 COUPON cards approx. in the same timeframe (Spring/Summer 1910) that ALC printed these T206's with PIEDMONT, SWEET CAP, SOVEREIGN, etc. backs To my Engineering thinking mind that makes logical sense to me. 1910 COUPON (T213-1) Major League 48 subjects TED Z T206 Reference . |
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I'm not "busting" on anyone I'm stating true facts from a previous thread. At the time you and I were emailing about the ad Jeremy said he had and you said to give him time to dig it out that he was busy. Quote:
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The 20 Southern Leaguer's are not included in the Type 2 or Type 3 Set. That is one glaring difference in the the Type 1's vs the Type 2 & 3's. Obviously the dates are different and the 20 Type 1 Southern Leaguer's are identical to the T206 players from 1909-11, yet not included in the 1914 & 1919 Coupon sets. If you take for example the 4 SL Nashville players (Bay,Bernhard,Ellam,Perdue) from the T206 set, they match spot on to the Type 1 Coupon set, but when you get into the Type 2 1914 Coupons, Nashville players change over to Al Bridwell & Gabby Street & same for Type 3 Coupons as they feature Al & Gabby. It's like this with other players from SL teams and that makes a distinction between the 20 SL featured in Coupon that were offered in the American Litho / ATC brands later named - T206. Also, as for the New Orleans Times Picayune, there was a series of Coupon Advertisements in the 1909-10 papers depicting different Sportsmen scenarios, like hunting, horse racing, sporting events, etc. The pack is on the advertisement with T206 style cards showing and players names. One such advertisement (that I own), depicts 3 Southern Leaguer's coming out of the top of the pack. When I have time I will have to dig up the Newspaper as I don't have it scanned and its buried in a dry dark place. The Coupon Ad's were run for a handful of months around the 1909-10 time frame.[/QUOTE] Quote:
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Coupons Type 1’s are rare bc of distribution pattern....
Ted - Per your comments below... I absolutely agree these cards were randomly attached to Coupon Cartons. (See my Examples below) : The Greminger has Carton layer/residue on the reverse still stuck to it and the Coupon Carton has a patchy area in upper right hand corner and is missing a thin layer of carton where something was attached to it and was removed. Plenty of Type 1 Coupon examples with the missing paper in the same spot on the upper middle back. Now look at the carton below... Unfortunately, I have only seen 2 Cartons in my life as they are fragile and have not survived and I own one. I wish I could find the other one to review for paper loss to the carton and see if it is in the same spot. Doesn't have to be as you could attach the card anywhere I suppose, but it makes sense that the upper right of the carton would have the card attached and consistent with pattern of the paper loss on card and carton.
The ones who disagree with us are unaware that these cards were NOT meant to be "stiffiners" in cigarette packs. The initial offering of the COUPON cigarettes was in rectangular cartons containing 200 (or more) loose cigarettes.....circa 1909 - 1910). Many of the cards were inserted in these cartons, while others were pasted on the outside of the carton. Hence, the paper loss on the backs of some of these cards (e.g. my Cobb).
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Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia Last edited by DixieBaseball; 05-22-2021 at 04:20 PM. |
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If the paper loss on your carton is from having a type 1 glued to it that would mean they were printed after the t206's according to Ted. He said your carton is 1913 or later because it has Liggett & Myers on it. |
#7
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Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like
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to these cartons post ATC Divesture. The most significant key to determining when the 1910 cards were printed (besides the 48 subjects from the 350-only Series) is in the labelling on the backs of these cards, namely "COUPON" The QUOTES surrounding the Brand name signify that ATC has not yet received the Registered TRADEMARK of this new brand (circa 1909/1910) at time of their printing. Other such examples of QUOTED new Brands are these........... . . TED Z T206 Reference . |
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As you like to say we have discussed this already Ted. First of we know the Coupon Cigarettes existed as early as 1908 Quote:
and the quotes seemed to be used on tobacco products frequently back then Here's a Carolina Brights coupon I have that they used the quotes on img408.jpg so your case closed evidence that they were printed in 1910 is A similar back design 48 subjects from the 350 only series Coupon in quotes Paper missing on some backs where they were glued to cartons These things according to you are case closed evidence they were printed in 1910 but the these facts they're printed on a different stock the t213 type 1 subjects don't match up with any other t206 back (except Piedmont) the ledger pages from an atc journal covering 35 tobacco brands from 1909-1912 doesn't have Coupon cigarettes in it. you claim that they were glued to cartons and that's what the paper loss on on the back of some of them is from but the carton with paper loss on it that Jeremy has you yourself said is no earlier than 1913. so all of these facts are just meh... a coincidence? it really seems to me that you're grasping at straws to prove they were printed in 1910. |
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Coupon Carton....
The carton I showed is 1 of 2 examples I have ever seen. We don't know what the cartons looked like from 1909-12. Perhaps they were different. I showed the carton to merely indicate that it has paper loss in upper right and the size of the paper loss is the same as the typical size of the paper loss on a Type 1 Coupon. Many Type 1 Coupons have this same paper loss. There is no doubt the Coupons were affixed to something. Too many examples to be a coincidence. Also, keep in mind Coupon changed their coloring, style on packs multiple times. (I have 3 different colors/styles from 3 different decades in my collection) So it's not out of the question, to see a variance of carton or pack. There may be different examples of cartons that didn't survive that look different from 1909-12. We know the packs look different from 1910 era to 1919-20 to 1930's...
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Collector of Nashville & Southern Memorabilia Last edited by DixieBaseball; 05-23-2021 at 11:21 AM. |
#10
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Show-n-Tell which Tobacco cards you have are your favorites, post as many as you like
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You are so OBSESSED with proving me wrong regarding the 1910 date.....that you are continually making a "fool" of your self. Perhaps Mark Twain said it best.... "Do not argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference." This discussion is ENDED ! ! (as far as I'm concerned). Thanks for "hi-jacking" what started out as an interesting thread. Hey folks, let's continue posting and talking about our favorite Tobacco cards. TED Z . |
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