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#1
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There is a long running thread on the Bond Bread controversy (1947 BOND BREAD and its "importers"....show us your cards ?) By Ted Zanidakis - it is an amazingly good thread, full of good information, but it is long. Everyone should take time to check it out, if you are into Bond Bread. I will give my opinion on what I have read there. Please chime in if I miss something, I am no expert by any means. I just want to recap and update the Bond Bread controversy here. … 1947 BOND BREAD and its "importers"....show us your cards ? By Ted Zanidakis.
All these years and we can not agree on what is a legitimate Bond Bread card. We have 1947 rounded corner cards, 1947 square cards, 1949 square cards-that emerged as a standalone product sold as “Sport Star Subjects”, and the re-printed "1947 Bond Bread" cards which David Festberg discovered in a NJ warehouse in the 1980's…24 cards in that set. All these cards were 2 ¼ x 3 ½, but on different paper. Ted Zanidakis had first hand knowledge on what should be considered Bond Bread cards, he collected these cards directly from Bond Bread packages. They were on thin white stock with round corners. Bond Bread cards were packaged in loaves of Bond Bread, and at least one theory for their rounded corners is that the cards were less susceptible to damage that way. Importantly for collectors today, the rounded corners help distinguish these cards from near-identical versions that emerged as a standalone product sold as “Sport Star Subjects” in 1947 and 1949. We also have people who say they collected 1947 square cards that were not inserted into Bond Bread; printed on heavier card-stock not as white, more on the gray side. These 1947 square cards should not be called Bond Bread since they were not inserted into Bond Bread. Although the two mentioned cards are virtually identical, but still, many people say they collected 1947 square first hand in boxes as a stand alone. ie, “Sports Star”. This means that we have two distinct issues: for the year 1947; Bond Bread package inserts and stand alone, “Sports Star”. Meaning 1947 Bond Bread round cornered, and 1947 Sports Star Bond Bread squared cornered cards. We also have the 1949 square cards…”Sports Star” said to have come out in 1949. But remember we have statements from various collectors who say they received the Sports Star Subjects and Screen Star Subjects sets in packets in 1947, it appears to me that it is incorrect to assume those sets were not issued until 1949-1950. Yes, cards did come out in 1949 as Sports Star cards, but these were just re-prints of 1947 Sports Star cards, I do not believe anyone can tell if they are from 1947 or 1949 since they are exactly the same. These cards should be called Sports stars and not Bond Bread cards , even though many have the same image on them. Now up to date, Bond Bread did produce Aarco Bond Bread Exhibit cards in 1947, many with the same images as the Bond Bread inserts; 3 1/16 x 4 ¾ in. believed to have been distributed through penny arcades. But this size is not listed in the standard catalog of vintage baseball cards 4 edition. Many people assign these cards to W571, but that is wrong. Also in 1947 Bond Bread produced premium baseball cards that were 6-5/8 in x 9 in. The exhibit and premium cards should not be called Bond Bread cards, but Bond Bread exhibit and premium Bond Bread cards. As for the Festberg discovered in a NJ warehouse in the 1980's, you can tell they are not from 1947 or 1949 by looking at the back of the cards, they are more brown than the white or gray stock used to print on. As a matter of fact - the 1947 and 1949 square cards and the exhibit, and the premium are printed on the same gray looking stock, whereas the Bond Bread round cornered cards were on a whiter and a little bit thinner and glossy stock. It is very obvious that the Festberg discoveries are inferior reproductions of the original 1947-1949 cards. Full disclosure: I only collect baseball cards that match photos I have, and I do have two other threads on this subject running; Bond Bread card size, and card size. Please have a look. I have a few photos that match the “Bond Bread” cards. That's why I have done my research on Bond Bread cards. Here are some of the pictures I have - to show the difference, look at the front and back of the cards. John. |
#2
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Well then, please check the attached example and tell me what era you believe it may fit into this discussion.
Butch Turner
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“Man proposes and God disposes.” U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885 Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets. Senators and Frank Howard fan. I collect Topps baseball variations -- I can quit anytime I want to.....I DON'T WANT TO. |
#3
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"Well then, please check the attached example and tell me what era you believe it may fit into this discussion."
In my opinion...it is a 1947-1949 card! Once again... I am no expert by any means. John. What size is the card? Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-27-2024 at 05:12 PM. |
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This should keep you going for the next hour or so....It was started about 15 1/2 yrs ago by Teddy Z (RIP)...
https://net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=92743
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Leon Luckey |
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Yes I hope I was clear on that. It is one of the best threads on Bond Bread. But at the same time we have new information or a better understanding of the facts, this is what this thread is about. Thanks for putting up the ink, from Ted Z. John
Last edited by Johnphotoman; 12-02-2024 at 09:57 AM. |
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Butch Turner
__________________
“Man proposes and God disposes.” U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885 Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets. Senators and Frank Howard fan. I collect Topps baseball variations -- I can quit anytime I want to.....I DON'T WANT TO. Last edited by butchie_t; 11-27-2024 at 06:04 PM. Reason: modified reply based on noting an era selection. |
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I believe that card to be from the large find which I believe occurred in the 70s. I have no idea when these were made, but they are not treated as original in the hobby in my opinion..
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#8
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Here is an example with rulers. Sorry about the ruler on the side it slipped an 1/16th of an inch. Regards, Butch Turner
__________________
“Man proposes and God disposes.” U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885 Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets. Senators and Frank Howard fan. I collect Topps baseball variations -- I can quit anytime I want to.....I DON'T WANT TO. Last edited by butchie_t; 11-27-2024 at 06:01 PM. |
#9
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If the card is 2 1/4 x 3 1/2, and since it is a squared card, it would be a “Sports Star” card, 1947 or 1949, But most of the time it will be listed as a W571 / D305 -Bond Bread card. John
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Still cool to own and I like them all. B.T.
__________________
“Man proposes and God disposes.” U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885 Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets. Senators and Frank Howard fan. I collect Topps baseball variations -- I can quit anytime I want to.....I DON'T WANT TO. |
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You are right, there is no way to prove that it is 100% from the “Sports Star” set. or any set. But we have first hand knowledge ,people who collected this cards in 1947-1949. I will take first hand knowledge over any other. And yes, they are very cool cards. Fun to have and look at. John
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#12
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There is a copy of the Baseball card society letter on the original thread, this is what Ted Z wrote about that letter:
From the original By Ted Zanidakis thread: "This document appears to be the evidence regarding the source of the RE-printed "1947 Bond Bread" cards which David Festberg discovered in a NJ warehouse in the 1980's. It is not dated, however in it's text it implies a circa 1980's date, which does coincide with Festberg's find. Plus, the fact that 24 cards are being advertised. The original BOND BREAD set of cards consists of 48 cards. When I first saw these cards in the early 1990's at the Philly Show, I purchased several of them. When I got home, I compared them to my original 1947 BOND BREAD cards, which I collected in my youth. And, it was very obvious, that these were inferior reproductions." TED Z The cards you have does not look inferior in anyway, but a true 1947-1949 card to me, and that's where I would place it. John |
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Butch Turner
__________________
“Man proposes and God disposes.” U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885 Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets. Senators and Frank Howard fan. I collect Topps baseball variations -- I can quit anytime I want to.....I DON'T WANT TO. Last edited by butchie_t; 11-27-2024 at 07:22 PM. |
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Can you post them? Where did you buy them? I thought the letter was to warn people about the re-prints from the 1980s, I did not know about the find in the 1970s. I try to copy the original letter but could not, what date is on yours.
This is good knowledge to have.Thank you for your opinion, but many people take them as original. And that is what this thread is about, it is good to get other opinions. My research gives one opinion and your another. Look at the Edwards Auction, if those cars had brown backs and of inferior quality, they would not say they were 1947-1949 cards. Lot 42: Square Corner Bond Bread Complete Baseball Card Set (24) w/ Jackie Robinson, Stan Musial, Phil Rizzuto, Joe Louis - 1947-49? Richard L. Edwards Auctioneer Greenville, OH, US April 15, 2023 Item Overview / Description, Square Corner Bond Bread Complete Baseball Card Set (24) w/ Jackie Robinson, Stan Musial, Phil Rizzuto, Joe Louis - 1947-49? John Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-29-2024 at 08:18 AM. |
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I would love to say that they are original. They do check some notable boxes but.... Problem is that there are way more questions than answers to the questions. And Ted Z as well as Leon have commented about these as well over the years. I take their word as gospel.
Here you go. Cheers,
__________________
“Man proposes and God disposes.” U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885 Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets. Senators and Frank Howard fan. I collect Topps baseball variations -- I can quit anytime I want to.....I DON'T WANT TO. Last edited by butchie_t; 11-27-2024 at 08:36 PM. |
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Thank you, I do appreciate your help with this thread. With all due respect I have a question for you. Butch, with your own proof, why do you question if the cards you have are not original? The letter you have says…”the most unique sets of baseball cards ever produced - 1947 Homogenized Bond set.”
“40-year-old cards”. "Every one of The 24 cards are in gem mint condition -exactly as they were printed more than 40 years ago.” I notice there is no date on the letter, but if we go back 40 years from 1970-1980 we come to the years-1930-1940. Therefore the cards you have would be in those eras. Also your letter says, "The 1947 Homogenized Bond set, which was printed for only one year, contained 48 cards in all (44 baseball players and 4 boxers. We purchased the best of the set--24 cards in all---from the dealers's widow." Therefore, you would have the 24 set card from 1947. Thanks again, John. |
#17
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Here is a link to Bob Lemke's Blog - Saturday, April 16, 2011.
This page basically backs up the Baseball Card Society letter form above. Thanks to butchie t posting. “The most recent information provided sheds some light on a variant of what the hobby knows as the "Bond Bread" issue of 1947. In reality, the New York baker was only one of several businesses that used a series of 44 baseball player cards and four boxers as promotions in the post-war era. The genesis of the cards was a Chicago publisher, Aarco Playing Cards, that originally sold the cards in 1947 in boxed sets of 12 under the name Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects. The cards are black-and-white, blank-backed, 2-1/4" x 3-3/8" with rounded corners. Photos are borderless portraits or posed action shots with a facsimile autograph or script name. That year, the N.Y. baker of Bond Bread evidently contracted with Aarco to obtain a quantity of the cards for distribution in loaves of bread. Later, for reasons unknown, square-cornered versions of half the cards in the set, printed on different card stock, were also produced. Besides the boxed set and bread cards, much of the checklist of this set, along with at least one player that didn't appear in the original form, was used in a series of Exhibit-style larger-format cards and in a set of premium pictures in 6-5/8" x 9" format. There was also a seldom-seen variant using the baseball/boxer pictures on one side, paired with Western movie stars on the backs. These were issued in perforated sheets.” (Bob Lemke's Blog). https://boblemke.blogspot.com/2011/0...ond-bread.html John. |
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The "seldom seen variant"...seen
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__________________
Read my blog; it will make all your dreams come true. https://adamstevenwarshaw.substack.com/ Or not... |
#19
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What I can say, is that the backs of them were much lighter than your photo. They have a cream colored back that is almost white and the cardboard stock is very thin. I now know that I am going to have to tear apart my attic to track these down. Last edited by Matt74; 11-28-2024 at 09:38 PM. |
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Thank you, I would bet they are Bond Bread 1947 W571/D0305. Or Aarco Playing Cards, who originally sold the cards in 1947 in boxed sets of 12 under the name Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects, printed on a whiter more on the cream side then the 1947 square corner printed on heaver more on the gray side of paper. If you ever get the time can you post a couple here, so we can see. Thanks John.
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#21
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IMG_2400.jpg more like this, cream color.
Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-29-2024 at 08:14 AM. |
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i may have mispoken when i said "find" in the 70's. I was referring tpo the festburg find.
Last edited by ullmandds; 11-29-2024 at 08:30 AM. |
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To quote Bob Lemke’s blog, “Chicago publisher, Aarco Playing Cards, that originally sold the cards in 1947 in boxed sets of 12 under the name Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects. The cards are black-and-white, blank-backed, 2-1/4" x 3-3/8" with rounded corners. Photos are borderless portraits or posed action shots with a facsimile autograph or script name.”
In 1947, “the N.Y. baker of Bond Bread evidently contracted with Aarco to obtain a quantity of the cards for distribution in loaves of bread. Later, for reasons unknown, square-cornered versions of half the cards in the set, printed on different card stock, were also produced.” Matt 74, I believe you could have the same set that butchie t has, the 24 set from the 1970-1980, from the Original sets printed in 1947, the photos above was to show 1947 Square Corner cards printed on a heavier gray stock than the originals. I do not have any of the originals that I can post. Thank you John. |
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Thank you Pete, (Ullmandds), you can tell the Festberg - discovered in a NJ warehouse in the 1980's…from the 1947 cards. By looking at the back of the cards, they are more brown than the white or gray stock used to print on. And the quality of printing, the pictures are not as sharp. If you post the back of the cards that would help. From the front of the cards you posted, they do not look like the 1980 Festberg find to me. John
Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-29-2024 at 08:59 AM. |
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The point that I am trying to make is….both the butchie t and Ullmandds, cards, who purchased their cards around the 1970-1980 - Is that I believe they are not from the1980s Festberg - discovered in NJ. As I understand it, we have sets from 1947: Aarco Playing Cards, that originally sold the cards in 1947 in boxed sets of 12 under the name Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects. The cards are black-and-white, blank-backed, 2-1/4" x 3-3/8" with rounded corners. Photos are borderless portraits or posed action shots with a facsimile autograph or script name.” And Bond Bread was printed the same as the Sports Star cards. Also we have square-cornered versions of half the cards in the set, printed on different card stock , in 1947. We can tell the difference from the reprints from the 1980s Festberg - discovered in NJ. and the cards printed in 1947.John.
Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-29-2024 at 09:35 AM. |
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I would agree, we cannot tell between the 1947 genuine cars, but we can tell the 1980s Festberg finds from the 1947 cards. As for hot of the presses, the quality would not be as good in the pictures, because they would have to copy the genuine cards, unless they have the Original photos the cards were made from. I have 181 9x10 photos they could have been used to print the cards from. Many are the “Bond Bread cards", this is why I do not like to show the photo, because someone could use them to make cards, and we could not tell the difference. For this same reason we can tell the 1980 find, because of paper and the quality of the printing. But if someone did have photos like I the ones I have... they print up cards, if they went about using the right paper stock. If this happens, we could not tell them apart from the 1947 cards, or almost impossible to tell them apart.
Wait if a forensic expert went over the cards, then they could tell when the paper was made, and what kind of ink was used, it would almost be impossible to get ink and paper stock from the 1947, therefore the forensic person could tell the fake cards. But as collectors we could not. I was in the printing for over 40 years, and I don't know if I could tell the fakes if done right, with the matching stock and the original photo. John Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-29-2024 at 11:07 AM. |
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I was thinking, I don’t mean to imply that the 1980s Festberg - discovered in NJ. are not good cards to have. On the contrary, anyone who has these cards has a piece of baseball history. Only that they are not from the 1947 cards issued. And they are not Bond Bread cards, since they were not but in the bread, this is what makes the Bond Bread issue so special. And again I do agree we cannot tell the Bond Bread cards from the Sports Star cards. John
Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-29-2024 at 10:51 AM. |
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To clarify...I was never under the impression mine is from the festburg find...nor is it an original bond bread. I always thought it was some other issue with a vintage from the 50's or so.
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My best guess is you have 1947 cards, " Aarco Playing Cards 1947". Not having the cards in hand is hard to tell, but the quality is what one would expect and paper stock looks right, if there where re-prints from the 1950s, I believe we could tell just by looking at them. John
Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-29-2024 at 02:26 PM. |
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Here is what a copy or counterfeit card could and should look like in my opinion. The thing about the 1980s Festburg find is no one calls them fakes or counterfeits, just re-prints of 24 Bond Bread cards. Poor quality card looks like, I didn't mean to say counterfeit. John
Last edited by Johnphotoman; 12-06-2024 at 09:00 PM. Reason: Misspoke |
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Look at the back, the front set off on the back, I would say just stay away from cards that look like this one, again this is just my opinion.John
Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-29-2024 at 03:54 PM. |
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one more image on a card I would stay away from, could be a fake. John
Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-29-2024 at 04:20 PM. |
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It all comes down to provenance. There is absolutely no way to tie these cards to a bread company or some other company that existed and printed them within the 47-48 timeframe. Someone that put that information in the letter to entice me to purchase even cannot or could not definitively state that these are actual Homogenized Bond Bread cards. He just claimed that they could be. At least that is what I have come to believe/understand now. Now from a personal position I can see by comparing these cards to others within that time frame and much later, that they do compare themselves favorably to the earlier cards. But I am no expert and I have no other proof other than my hope. Bottom line, until someone has enough gumption to actually do a serious amount of forensic work on these cards to actually place them in the 40's era, they remain a nice, somewhat expensive, novelty group of cards that I own. I kept all the pertinent information from my purchase, including the invoice and the little tag that came with them. I can show my provenance but someone else has to do the gap tracking to actually get them to a documentable level that they can be cataloged as real. Regards, Butch
__________________
“Man proposes and God disposes.” U.S. Grant, July 1, 1885 Completed: 1969 - 2000 Topps Baseball Sets and Traded Sets. Senators and Frank Howard fan. I collect Topps baseball variations -- I can quit anytime I want to.....I DON'T WANT TO. |
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John, are the blank backed '47 Bond Bread rounded corners insert cards any rarer than those with the bread ad reverse? Great recap on a sometimes confusing set.
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I feel like people overthink this set.
Bond Bread didn't print the cards, they simply bought the cards from a printer and used them. The original issue is on thicker stock and pretty easy to tell it is original. The cards from the "find" are on old paper stock, not paper stock from the 1980's. They are left over stock from the 1940's or early 1950's. I don't know why collectors would shy away from them, they are legit 1940's-1950's cards. I don't think that I have ever seen any that were actually printed in the 1980's. If anything is a more modern fantasy piece, it is the exhibit issue. I wonder when these first appeared in hobby publications. They photos are grainy as if they are just enlarged versions of the smaller cards and the card stock is similar to the reprint exhibit cards that entered the hobby in the 1980's.
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Butch, part of me agrees with you, but as you said, your cards check enough of the boxes, for you to say they are 1947-1949 baseball cards. Let's look at the facts: We have people who have first hand Knowledge, these people collected their cards directly from Bond Bread loaves of bread or from Sports Star cards from - 1947-49.
We know what they look like, feel like, what they're printed on and the quality of printing from first hand knowledge. Then we have two letters to tell us about them, “24 card set originally printed in 1947-49 - offered for sale in 1970s and 1980s. Note, the letter says that they are not re-prints but the original 1947 printed cards. These are not just letters trying to get people to buy their cards. But very respected and qualified people and organizations to make such claims. Much different then the letter that went out from the 1980s Festberg - discovered, and the fact that we can tell the Festberg cards from the originally printing 1947 cards helps us to believe your cards fall under the 1947-49 printed cards. Using the above criteria - in all faith, we are able to put certain cards in the 1947-49 print time. But no one can say they have a real Bond Bread, only the ones who collected cards directly out of the Bond Bread loaf of bread. Bond Bread and Sports Star did produce the exact same rounded corner cards, therefore you or I or anybody for that fact can say for sure a rounded corner card is a Bond Bread card, but if they check all the same boxes as the cards you have… we can say they are from 1947-49. But you are right, a serious amount of forensic work needs to be done on these cards to actually place them in the 40's era 100%. Given what we know I believe we can place the right cards with a 80 to 90% accuracy in the 1947-49 window of time. I also believe we can place the re-prints, and fakes with the same 80 to 90% accuracy - that they do not fit in the 1947-49 window of time. John Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-30-2024 at 01:47 PM. |
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Yoda: That question is one for the experts who know about what is considered rare. Right out of the box I would say no.Understand the only people who have collected the original - Bond Bread cards, are those who collected those cards out of the loaves of bread. They are the only ones or have the “original Bond Bread cards”. I would say if you have proof, one could say on that point they are very rare. John
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I agree wholeheartedly with Scott, he is right on. Bond Bread did not print their own cards. It was only after seeing the Sports Star cards, they contacted the Chicago publisher, Aarco Playing Cards to print the same cards for them to put in their loaves of bread. Aarco, who originally sold the cards in 1947 in boxed sets of 12 under the name Collectors & Traders Sports Star Subjects. And as Scott said, the 1980s Festberg find are: “The cards from the "find" are on old paper stock, not paper stock from the 1980's. They are left over stock from the 1940's or early 1950's. I don't know why collectors would shy away from them, they are legit 1940's-1950's cards.”
I am not saying the 80s Fesberg are not from the 1947-50s, someone stored these cards printed from 1940-50s and they stayed there until Fesberg found them in 1980 or so. But it's just good to know what we have in our collection, and since we can tell them apart from the others we should designate them as such. I do believe people should collect the 1980 find. But we should be able to say if they are from The Sports Star/Bond Bread sets in our collection. It if fun to know what you have - anyway they are all good to have, just not as good as the-reprints or fakes. Thank You Scott, John. Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-30-2024 at 08:20 AM. |
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Does anyone know how the large the stash of cards was that was found...from the late 40's...presumably? Seems to me it was quite large as these cards were readily available for many years at pretty low prices.
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#42
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I do remember there was a letter that said about how many cards there where, I will look to see if I have it, and yes you can still get these cards at a lower price, that is our hobby for you. Any and all cards that come from the 1940-50, should come at a premium, no matter when they were made available for sale. But that is good for us in one way, but for those who collect for profit - must be going out of their mind, these cards are the first cards printed after World War II, they should be bringing premium and very high premiums, but I for one I'm glad they are not. I do not have big pockets. But I think that should sell for more. John
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part of the problem is many sellers sell these as "bond" bread examples and as a result there is a lot of confusion regarding them. Funny I only seem to see the big names from the set...I wonder where all the lesser named cards are????
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It does appear that many of the cards you see for sale are from the 24 set, because the 24 set did print the bigger names, and not many from the 44 card set.
But it is hard to tell what set a card came from, many have the exact same image on them. I will dig up the list, unless someone can post the list for the 44 card set and the 24 card set. And yes that is the point not all cards are Bond Bread that claim to be. They are 1947-49, but cannot be called Bond Bread, again unless you have proof they came from Bond Bread loaves of bread. The hobby does - mislabel many cards. John Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-30-2024 at 10:20 AM. |
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1947 Bond Bread Set Checklist - All are baseball players with the exception of the four boxers as noted below.
Rex Barney Yogi Berra Ewell Blackwell Lou Boudreau Ralph Branca Harry Brecheen Primo Carnera Marcel Cerdan Dom DiMaggio Joe DiMaggio Bobby Doerr Bruce Edwards Bob Elliott Del Ennis Bob Feller Carl Furillo Joe Gordon Sid Gordon Joe Hatten Gil Hodges Tommy Holmes Larry Jansen Sheldon Jones Eddie Joost Charlie Keller Ken Keltner Buddy Kerr Ralph Kiner Jake LaMotta Johnny Lindell Whitey Lockman Joe Louis Willard Marshall Johnny Mize Stan Musial Andy Pafko Johnny Pesky Pee Wee Reese Phil Rizzuto Aaron Robinson Jackie Robinson Johnny Sain Enos Slaughter Vern Stephens George Tebbetts Bobby Thomson Johnny Vander Meer Ted Williams Looking for the list of 24. |
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No the blank backs are not rarer, in my opinion. The 1947-49 cards we call "Bond Bread" had blank backs. And may 1947-49 cards had printing on the backs, I will look up the distinction later and explain the difference between the two, I'll have to check my notes, I cannot answer off the top of my head. I can say the one with printing on the backs, has never been given the title of Bond Bread. They are both great cards to have. John.
Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-30-2024 at 01:07 PM. |
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I gave this thread the name - “Let’s rehash the Bond Bread controversy.” For a good reason, to point out everything labeled as Bond Bread should not be given that distinction for reasons specified in this thread. And in the original thread by Ted Zanidakis - I believe too many people look down on the other cards. The title of the Ted Z thread (the Bond Bread controversy (1947 BOND BREAD and its "imposters"....show us your cards?) I hope I have that right. Leaves us with a lot to think about.
I believe a lot of good information came out of the thread, but in my opinion too many people think all other cards from 1947 are “importers” that are labeled as Bond Bread, they go as far as to say they are not from 1947-49, but some unknown time of print. And try to say all squared cards are reprints, we now know this is not the case. Yes, all cards we call Bond Bread should not be given that distinction. But just because they are squared does not mean they where not printed in 1947-49. In this very thread I have given the misconception about the 1980 Festberg find. They are not reprints, just leftover cards printed from 1947-49. I have said the quality was not as good, I do want to take that back after looking at cards for sale that I believe are from that find, I was wrong, the printed cards are as good as the originals. But we can still tell the Festberg cards from the others; The details are in the back of the cards. We can tell they are from the 1980 by the back of the cards. It tells us what kind of paper stock was used, and this is how we can tell them apart from other cards that were printed in 1947-49. I want to say this does not mean they are inferior cards in any way. But should be considered or labeled as 1947-49 Festberg find: Yes these cards were sold in the 1980-90 and until till today, but they are not reprint or fakes or cards from some unknown year, just because they were not sold in 1947-49. The reason I said the Festberg cards printing was not as good as the original 1947 cards, I was going by what others have said. But now that I have seen what I believe to be from the original Festberg cards - I will say you can only tell them by the stock - paper they were printed on, by looking at the back. Think about these cards as cars, they are all 1947-49 cars, but just different models. The cards may be on different stock, ie, models-but are still 1947-49 cards, different stock does not mean they where printed in different years. I know there are people who bought 1947-49 baseball cards called Bond Bread from David Festberg (1980 Festberg cards). It would be great to have some of those cards posted here. John Last edited by Johnphotoman; 11-30-2024 at 01:39 PM. |
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WRT "the Fessburg cards": You seem to be saying that somebody printed up a bunch of cards in 1947-9 on eccentric card stock, which then disappeared leaving no survivors until a large number were found in 1980. I'm wondering why you are convinced they were printed then and not any other time between then and when they were "discovered" in 1980?
I only have one card that's relevant: ![]() Sent from my motorola edge 5G UW (2021) using Tapatalk |
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Only because we have first hand knowledge, people who collected these cards in 1947-49. Therefore we know what to look for. To print them in any other years, they would have to have copied them from the original cards, when this is done we can tell. As I have said, you would need the original photos or negatives to print from. There is 99% chance the people who would have printed the exact cards would have the originals, therefore, you would have a copy of a copy, which will leave a patter in the printed card.
I was in printing for 40 years, I can tell when it is a copy from something that has already been printed. Look at the examples, you can tell the one that was copied from one that was printed before, and the one that was printed right from the original photo. The top card is the fake. As for the card stock it would not match any of the samples we have from 1947-49 paper stock. You can use a black light to tell new paper stock from paper stock that was made in 1947-49. John Last edited by Johnphotoman; 12-07-2024 at 08:17 AM. |
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