The Superiority of SGC

[robw1959]

I just got notified by PWCC that one of my cards purchased from a PWCC auction last November, a 1948 Leaf Joe Dimaggio, was indeed an altered card, and that they wanted to issue me a refund so that they could take it out of circulation by turning it over to law enforcement. It was originally a PSA 3 (PQ), but just looked too sharp for the assigned grade, so I cracked it out and sent it to SGC. Unfortunately, it came back from SGC as an unholdered card that was deemed to have been trimmed. The card is now in the mail to PWCC so I can be refunded once they have verified that this was the card in question.

My point is this: With PSA's reputation as the most conservative grading company out there, I'm pretty sure that a sizable portion of those altered cards have gone this same route and have eventually ended up in the hands of SGC at some point, yet SGC has yet to be implicated in the slabgate scandal. While I'm sure they have allowed some conserved cards to pass through their process and receive a numerical grade, so far, it doesn't look like the trimmed or recolored cards are getting through like they have passed through those card sieves known as PSA and Beckett. The only conclusion that I can draw is that SGC has superior graders.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by robw1959

I just got notified by PWCC that one of my cards purchased from a PWCC auction last November, a 1948 Leaf Joe Dimaggio, was indeed an altered card, and that they wanted to issue me a refund so that they could take it out of circulation by turning it over to law enforcement. It was originally a PSA 3 (PQ), but just looked too sharp for the assigned grade, so I cracked it out and sent it to SGC. Unfortunately, it came back from SGC as an unholdered card that was deemed to have been trimmed. The card is now in the mail to PWCC so I can be refunded once they have verified that this was the card in question.

My point is this: With PSA's reputation as the most conservative grading company out there, I'm pretty sure that a sizable portion of those altered cards have gone this same route and have eventually ended up in the hands of SGC at some point, yet SGC has yet to be implicated in the slabgate scandal. While I'm sure they have allowed some conserved cards to pass through their process and receive a numerical grade, so far, it doesn't look like the trimmed or recolored cards are getting through like they have passed through those card sieves known as PSA and Beckett. The only conclusion that I can draw is that SGC has superior graders.

I don't think they are perfect but they are WAY better than the other 2 on cards.

Please update when/if PWCC(Pre War Card Conservators) actually refund your purchase price.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion, but a single example is not exactly a robust body of evidence.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't necessarily disagree with your conclusion, but a single example is not exactly a robust body of evidence.

My only point is that I can't be the only one who has cracked an "undergraded" card out of a PSA holder and sent it to SGC for a second opinion. And there is a strong likelihood that quite a few of the altered PSA cards have already been sent to SGC by others as well, but we don't see scads of their cards showing up in the scandal.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by robw1959

My only point is that I can't be the only one who has cracked an "undergraded" card out of a PSA holder and sent it to SGC for a second opinion. And there is a strong likelihood that quite a few of the altered PSA cards have already been sent to SGC by others as well, but we don't see scads of their cards showing up in the scandal.

Usually people send the card to the other grading company in the slab in order to get a second opinion. Usually people who want to make more money on their card crack it out and send it to the other grading company raw. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the PWCC refund on this one.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think the OP was looking for a bump. Or he is misstating his reasoning for taking the card out of the PSA holder If someone thinks a card looks too sharp for the assigned grade, that sounds like he thinks that it's undergraded and has nothing to do with a concern whether it's altered or not. Unless there's some practice of undergrading altered cards that I am unaware of.

[robw1959]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Usually people send the card to the other grading company in the slab in order to get a second opinion. Usually people who want to make more money on their card crack it out and send it to the other grading company raw. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the PWCC refund on this one.

I just got an email from Betsy Huigens stating that they now have the card in-house, and that my refund would be issued in my PayPal account on Monday.

[swarmee]

Too early to tell; SGC has a broken cert number checker which makes it difficult to recreate submissions from their website. Plus, they're likely the 2nd or 3rd choice for Moser to submit vintage cards, with #1 and #2 being PSA.

I'm surprised that PWCC is going to take your card back since you cracked it out of the PSA holder on your own.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by swarmee

Too early to tell; SGC has a broken cert number checker which makes it difficult to recreate submissions from their website. Plus, they're likely the 2nd or 3rd choice for Moser to submit vintage cards, with #1 and #2 being PSA.

I'm surprised that PWCC is going to take your card back since you cracked it out of the PSA holder on your own.

Fear will make people do the damnedest things.

[swarmee]

He doesn't say he told PWCC it was removed from the holder.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Some high ticket SGC is starting to show up on BO, by the way. E.g.
https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=2827

[Peter_Spaeth]

https://www.blowoutforums.com/showpo...postcount=3244

[NYYFan63]

I agree with others, I would like to know if PWCC provides a refund since you cracked the card out of the PSA holder. I would not think they could turn over to law enforcement.


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[robw1959]

Originally Posted by NYYFan63

I agree with others, I would like to know if PWCC provides a refund since you cracked the card out of the PSA holder. I would not think they could turn over to law enforcement.


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Well, I did let them know about that. It will probably just take longer for me to get that refund since they will likely have to send it to PSA to ascertain that this is the one that was altered. The trimming is pretty hard to spot, for sure.

[Republicaninmass]

You guys ever have a card kicked back by PSA and wonder why? Many times it is evident with the card in hand, but unless pointed out, it's tough to notice. Imagine if hundreds and hundreds of cards, just in the PWCC subs are all doctored, some obvious ones are sure to slip by. However, they are using a pro to do this, and it's on every card. That's evident by the low grade and mid grade cards gaming small amounts. I think it's a number game, still in shock PSA cant detect them. Again, you build a better mouse trap, they'll build a better mouse

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[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Republicaninmass

You guys ever have a card kicked back by PSA and wonder why? Many times it is evident with the card in hand, but unless pointed out, it's tough to notice. Imagine if hundreds and hundreds of cards, just in the PWCC subs are all doctored, some obvious ones are sure to slip by. However, they are using a pro to do this, and it's on every card. That's evident by the low grade and mid grade cards gaming small amounts. I think it's a number game, still in shock PSA cant detect them. Again, you build a better mouse trap, they'll build a better mouse

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Agree with almost all said sir good points.
One disagreement don’t give the guy the credit...the card doctor..... isn’t a Pro...many are horrendously done
PSA is no longer a authority to me....they’re a facilitator....yuck vomit..... Try and Try to get this through people’s heads but as long as people believe their cards will be worth more in their holders the PSA lines will be flooded with people spending their money for their opinion....Report on the Lines At the National to Follow

[Republicaninmass]

That t3 Cobb really got my goat. I didnt even need a big scan. Not a pro job by any means, and slid through. A top tier HOF card. Not sure the excuse on that, maybe 2 day turnaround? They are submitted at super express

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