Ebay seller returned cracked out slab

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by mq711

I see both sides to this issue, buyer paid good money for a certain condition/unaltered card which upon further review he/she did not receive; everyone is always saying buy the card and not the slab. When it returned altered thus it wasn’t as advertised and a refund is proper. Now if the buyer changed out the card that is a different story and a criminal act otherwise not so.

I think the question comes down to this. If I sell a card in a GAI slab, and don't say anything about it, am I implicitly warranting the card is unaltered? Or is the buyer taking the risk that it's altered, knowing it's in an inferior holder?

[bigfanNY]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think the question comes down to this. If I sell a card in a GAI slab, and don't say anything about it, am I implicitly warranting the card is unaltered? Or is the buyer taking the risk that it's altered, knowing it's in an inferior holder?

I looked at the original ebay post and the seller clearly says " sharp corners" " Near mint condition"
Saying that is very VERY different than sayin GAI has graded it near mint. Seller sold this card as near mint and it came back as altered. So in the case out of the case he has no case.

[Buythatcard]

Why does the OP refuse to disclose the name of this Buyer? He has been asked several times.

We can block this buyer so that we don't have it happen to us.

[x2drich2000]

Originally Posted by Buythatcard

Why does the OP refuse to disclose the name of this Buyer? He has been asked several times.

We can block this buyer so that we don't have it happen to us.

So the OP confirmed what card it is, and a good number of board members have been able to identify random altered cards sold by PWCC, so why can't someone other than the OP just identify the buyer with 11332 feedback on Ebay? There can't be all that many people card buyers with that volume of feedback.

[toolifedave]

Originally Posted by bigfanNY

I looked at the original ebay post and the seller clearly says " sharp corners" " Near mint condition"
Saying that is very VERY different than sayin GAI has graded it near mint. Seller sold this card as near mint and it came back as altered. So in the case out of the case he has no case.

I have not given the buyer’s name since it is my understand to use this site I have be careful what I post. The ebay original ad has been posted by someone else and includes the winners details.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by toolifedave

I have not given the buyer’s name since it is my understand to use this site I have be careful what I post. The ebay original ad has been posted by someone else and includes the winners details.

I am not sure where you are getting your rules for using this site- if you post an opinion about someone you must give your full name, but other than that, you are free to speak the truth and to name people who have screwed you. In fact, I think you are doing the Net54 community a disservice by not telling the name of the person. This guy weasels you out of over $5000, you start a thread to complain about it, yet you hide the guy’s name? That makes no sense in my opinion. You are ask the Board for advice and help, yet you won’t help to protect the people from whom you are seeking help and advice? Again, nonsense.

Best of luck.

Ryan Hotchkiss

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I am not sure where you are getting your rules for using this site- if you post an opinion about someone you must give your full name, but other than that, you are free to speak the truth and to name people who have screwed you. In fact, I think you are doing the Net54 community a disservice by not telling the name of the person. This guy weasels you out of over $5000, you start a thread to complain about it, yet you hide the guy’s name? That makes no sense in my opinion. You are ask the Board for advice and help, yet you won’t help to protect the people from whom you are seeking help and advice? Again, nonsense.

Best of luck.

Ryan Hotchkiss

That's how 90 percent of the complaint threads end up Ryan, without naming names.

And I would still like to know why, if the OP thought he had a genuine unaltered Gehrig 7, he would let it go in a GAI holder at a fraction of what it would sell for in a real holder. But I can only ask the same question so many times before I lose interest.

[Leon]

Ryan, I always appreciate the help but that bolded rule at the top of every page has changed. I kept getting the "well, if it is a fact then it's not an opinion and I don't need my name out there." To that I call total BS so the wording changed. Here is the new rule below (been there a few months at least). It tightened up (or loosened, if you will) the rule. So if the OP mentions the name of the seller then his full name will have to be out here. I am not sure he minds. I know positively that the op is not a big techie person as I walked him through how to post before this thread, on a very pleasant phone call. That all said, now the new rule is-

If you write anything concerning a person or company your full name needs to be in your post or obtainable from it.
.

And my thought, regardless of what sales talk was given in the description, you crack a card you own a card. (unless both parties agree it is ok beforehand, which is not the case here.)

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

I am not sure where you are getting your rules for using this site- if you post an opinion about someone you must give your full name, but other than that, you are free to speak the truth and to name people who have screwed you. In fact, I think you are doing the Net54 community a disservice by not telling the name of the person. This guy weasels you out of over $5000, you start a thread to complain about it, yet you hide the guy’s name? That makes no sense in my opinion. You are ask the Board for advice and help, yet you won’t help to protect the people from whom you are seeking help and advice? Again, nonsense.

Best of luck.

Ryan Hotchkiss

[Mark17]

If PWCC sold a card that was graded a 7 that was actually altered, everyone here would be jumping all over PWCC and on the side of the buyer, who had revealed the alteration.

In this case the OP sells a card graded GAI 7 that turns out to be altered, and most here are excoriating the buyer for revealing the card was actually altered.

Am I missing something, or is this just hypocrisy? I'm not saying the OP did anything wrong, but a buyer who pays over $5k for a card graded 7 and receives an altered card should not just be stuck with it. If this was the case, why all the whining about PWCC and their alleged altered cards?

If the OP can sell a card that's altered, but was wrongly slabbed with a high grade, why can't anybody?

Look at the card..... doesn't the right border get narrower, looking from top to bottom?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Mark17

If PWCC sold a card that was graded a 7 that was actually altered, everyone here would be jumping all over PWCC and on the side of the buyer, who had revealed the alteration.

In this case the OP sells a card graded GAI 7 that turns out to be altered, and most here are excoriating the buyer for revealing the card was actually altered.

Am I missing something, or is this just hypocrisy? I'm not saying the OP did anything wrong, but a buyer who pays over $5k for a card graded 7 and receives an altered card should not just be stuck with it. If this was the case, why all the whining about PWCC and their alleged altered cards?

If the OP can sell a card that's altered, but was wrongly slabbed with a high grade, why can't anybody?

Look at the card..... doesn't the right border get narrower, looking from top to bottom?

If the card was still in the GAI holder I would agree 100%, but he's simply not returning the same item he received. I'm not saying this is the case, but PSA has sort of proved they are fallible, who's to say they got this right? Also there is no reason to crack a card for crossover other than trying to hide information. The buyer had no right to crack a card and then initiate a return.

[perezfan]

Originally Posted by Mark17

If PWCC sold a card that was graded a 7 that was actually altered, everyone here would be jumping all over PWCC and on the side of the buyer, who had revealed the alteration.

In this case the OP sells a card graded GAI 7 that turns out to be altered, and most here are excoriating the buyer for revealing the card was actually altered.

Am I missing something, or is this just hypocrisy? I'm not saying the OP did anything wrong, but a buyer who pays over $5k for a card graded 7 and receives an altered card should not just be stuck with it. If this was the case, why all the whining about PWCC and their alleged altered cards?

If the OP can sell a card that's altered, but was wrongly slabbed with a high grade, why can't anybody?

Look at the card..... doesn't the right border get narrower, looking from top to bottom?

Not apples to apples...

First off, PSA is anything but infallible. They are the ones who’ve mistakenly numerically graded those thousands of PWCC and other altered cards. They have made more “mistakes” and issued more false numerical grades than anyone. So why is their word the word of God? It’s amazing that despite the mountain of indisputable evidence, people are still hypnotized by them.

Secondly, the card was sold with a proper description in a GAI Holder. It was not returned in the same state. You cannot tamper with an item and then return it, when you failed to realize the desired personal gain.

Lastly, the apparent narrowing of the card towards the bottom is due to the way and the angle by which it was photographed. It is called a parallax view, and is a common phenomenon when photographing at an angle. The portion closest to the camera lens will appear larger than the portion that’s further away.

If the card was scanned in a more traditional manner, you’d see that it is symmetrical. Bottom line is that the buyer took advantage of the system, at the expense of the seller. I hope his name is disclosed, for the sake of our collecting community.

[JohnP0621]

I once purchased a Ty Cobb Silk at the Philly Show 2 years ago that was graded by GAI 4 . After the purchase I took it directly to the SGC table in the original slab to have it re-graded by SGC.,The item came back as altered. I contacted the seller and asked for a refund . The seller said he had no problem giving me the full refund as long as the item was not removed from the case. The seller took back the card and gave the full refund . I knew when I purchased the card that a lot of GAI cards come back as altered when submitted to SGC or PSA. I also knew that if the card came back in the same grade it would have been worth more $$$ in the SGC slab. But I was also aware that if I cracked it out before submitting and it came back altered the Gamble would be on me 100%
and I would not expect the seller to take any of the responsibility .
I think in this case both parties should take a part of the responsibility
The buyer took a big gamble and lost . Also hard to believe that the seller didn't think the card might have been altered when listed as Near Mint.

John P

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by JohnP0621

The seller said he had no problem giving me the full refund as long as the item was not removed from the case.

And if PWCC said this, EVERYBODY on this site would say: "So you can try to resell the altered card as a nicely graded card to the next sucker, right?!"

If the card was altered and being misrepresented in that GAI 7 holder, the buyer did all of us, and hobbyists yet unborn, a favor. One less mis-graded card out there.

[chalupacollects]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think the question comes down to this. If I sell a card in a GAI slab, and don't say anything about it, am I implicitly warranting the card is unaltered? Or is the buyer taking the risk that it's altered, knowing it's in an inferior holder?

If the OP bought the card in a GAI slab then theoretically he is trusting GAI's opinion that the card is what it is. If the buyer buys it that way he/she should be under the same understanding. It is what it is...

I don't think that either one should "know" the card being in a GAI slab is automatically or possibly altered. What if the card was purchased as a gift by a spouse? Does that change anything?

Based on what has been presented, the buyer was looking for a PSA bump, didn't get one and has now harmed the seller's item. Buyer also seems to be a large dealer or collector based on feedback.. ebay has dropped the ball on this...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by chalupacollects

If the OP bought the card in a GAI slab then theoretically he is trusting GAI's opinion that the card is what it is. If the buyer buys it that way he/she should be under the same understanding. It is what it is...

I don't think that either one should "know" the card being in a GAI slab is automatically or possibly altered. What if the card was purchased as a gift by a spouse? Does that change anything?

Based on what has been presented, the buyer was looking for a PSA bump, didn't get one and has now harmed the seller's item. Buyer also seems to be a large dealer or collector based on feedback.. ebay has dropped the ball on this...

My point is that a rational seller would not sell a card in a GAI holder that's worth 3X in a PSA or SGC holder, unless he already had tried to cross it, or was pretty sure it was bad. None of that really has anything to do with ebay which should not permit a return in this case because the buyer cannot return the same product he purchased. On the other hand, it's hard for me to feel too bad for the OP who misrepresented, even if unintentionally, the card.

[Mark17]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

On the other hand, it's hard for me to feel too bad for the OP who misrepresented, even if unintentionally, the card.

This. That is the bottom line.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My point is that a rational seller would not sell a card in a GAI holder that's worth 3X in a PSA or SGC holder, unless he already had tried to cross it, or was pretty sure it was bad. None of that really has anything to do with ebay which should not permit a return in this case because the buyer cannot return the same product he purchased. On the other hand, it's hard for me to feel too bad for the OP who misrepresented, even if unintentionally, the card.

Since GAI is out of business, what about if it was in GTX or whatever holder. Can you break that one out