Authentic or Fake? You be the judge

[Moesalty]

I am being offered this signature, which is authenticated. It just doesn't look very Kosher to me. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance...

[cdonne]

Not sure this passes PSA or JSA...FWIW

[camlov2]

If I read correctly...
"This item was signed in the presence of an Autograph Certification Experts representative..."

So how long has this company been in business? I don't think Ruth has been signing the last few years.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by camlov2

If I read correctly...
"This item was signed in the presence of an Autograph Certification Experts representative..."

So how long has this company been in business? I don't think Ruth has been signing the last few years.

I think Priddy got it in person when he was a little boy. Even I didn't realize that Priddy was that old..

Hahaha!!!

[FUBAR]

not liking it myself..... The "r" isn't loopy enough.

[Ladder7]

Two words, two shades. Suggests a halftime break.

The loop in the first leg of the R, looks slowly written.

Good luck with it.

[Moesalty]

You guys are the best! Thanks

[brob28]

Joe & Steve nailed it, that R in Ruth looks terrible.

[Vintagedegu]

-

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Moesalty

I am being offered this signature, which is authenticated. It just doesn't look very Kosher to me. Any help is appreciated. Thanks in advance...

In my opinion, it looks like a ham sandwich with a side order of bacon.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Mr. Priddy (ACE), are you serious?

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[mr2686]

Maybe they meant it was priddy bad?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

In my opinion, it looks like a ham sandwich with a side order of bacon.

hmmm ....then I doubt it's Kosher?

[mschwade]

If I am not mistaken, isn't that the way Mrs. Babe Ruth signed her R's when she was signing for him in 1948?

[Piedmont Sport]

This signature looks bad to me as well. As for the signed in presence on his LOA I think he just made a typo from one of his letters that he would give out for an autograph he witnessed being signed. Here is an example of a dead on Ruth that Justin did for us that a customer walked into a show and he authenticated on site.

[ScottR81]

The "R" looks more like it should in this letter but this is the most forged signature out there. The hand writing does help to compair with the letters in his signature.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Another beauty authenticated by ACE.

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[danc]

In a world dominated by PSA/DNA and JSA, having anything authenticated by someone else would prove perhaps that it was shown to the previous two, and it failed.

Oh man on those Jeters. Keep up the good work Justin!

DanC

[thetruthisoutthere]

Frank, do you really feel that the Babe Ruth you posted (the one authenticated by ACE) is authentic?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Frank, have you considered submitting it to PSA? If that passes PSA that is a $20,000 item.

[RichardSimon]

I have asked 5 other highly regarded autograph people for their opinion on the Ruth,, so far two have responded,, they both think it is fake.
I am still waiting for the others to get back to me.
I will post the results,whatever they are, as soon as I get them.
A third person has responded to my request about this Ruth and he also thinks it is bad.
And if you count David Atkatz, whom I did not ask,that is four very knowledgable people who do not like that Babe Ruth.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Awful Babe Ruth. Slowly drawn.

[danc]

Does he employ anyone else, as the name of his company would suggest so as "Experts" as it's usually one lonely man in a chair.

See him in White Plains next week!

DanC

[David Atkatz]

IMHO, Frank, that Ruth note is a fake.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Frank, it is staggering to me that Justin would "authenticate" that Babe Ruth written note and even more staggering that he (Justin Priddy, ACE) continues to "authenticate" those Derek Jeter type forgeries.

[mcgwirecom]

It says it was signed "in the presence of". How could it be bad?

[thetruthisoutthere]

Originally Posted by mcgwirecom

It says it was signed "in the presence of". How could it be bad?

Randall, I'm referring to the Babe Ruth that Frank posted, not the one that started this thread. Both of them are awful.

[Piedmont Sport]

I've sent it to JSA for review ,,, i'll post results when i get it back. Funny as it may sound but ACE is the go to guy at Tri Star shows. Thats where the Ruth was purchased,,, IMHO I think it's good. FYI , JSA was at the show but only jimmy jr. was there. I've been searching for another source for some time that the public accepts ,,,, and i've used Mike Frost recently P.A.A.S. I know we could all list the many mistakes of the 2 leading companies but the world of preception wins ,,, if they say good then it must be real. After the last Pawn Star Show > Al Pacino Goof --- hard to look at those 2 companies the same. THE PISSING CONTEST CURRENTLY between PSA and JSA is a cause for major concern ,,,, it's a shame were forced by EBAY TO ONLY USE THOSE TWO. If anyone can share anthore company the the public accepts please post > Im sure we all have horror stories it's time to help each other.

[Piedmont Sport]

This authentication business really has become a joke. People truly enjoy jumping on an authenticator when they FEEL as though that person made a mistake. It's also great that almost everyone on this thread has mocked PSA and jsa, but then turn around and ask why dont I submit the item to PSA or jsa. It truly sickens me that people really buy loa's on the name of the company. I have a huge file of mistakes by PSA and jsa in my office.

[packs]

If ACE wants to build its reputation these are high profile signatures that need to be identified correctly.

[Piedmont Sport]

So now were using the law of large #'s - how would u feel if u were unlucky perc. - between the 2 companies over 20 mil autographs cert. at best lets use the 80 - 20 rule ,,, that means 1.6 million are bad. Have u seen the Mike Schmidt goof ,,,,, on Fox news --- we are getting different results on 4 companies > we are so affraid of the backlash that i purshased insurance from MARSH - MCLEANAN - to cover my companies ass. PAS and JSA are swiching employees - and we found PSA selling Joe D and Mickey baseballs in Virgina - Marco Rol show and myself and another dealer called them out on it. Get over it ,,,, if Jim sr. just happen to be taken out of the picture suddenly would all of still be running to JSA.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Piedmont Sport

This authentication business really has become a joke.

Become?

[RichardSimon]

But Frank you constantly complain here about PSA and JSA and yet you use JSA over and over.
You post here old news about the Mike Schmidt goof of JSA but you use him over and over.
At least be true to your word and don't be a hypocrite.
If I felt that the NY Times was an anti-Semitic newspaper I would stop buying it.
I stay true to my beliefs, always. Even if it costs me money, I stick to my beliefs.
If you think the big two are bad for the hobby then stop using them or else stay a hypocrite.
Actions speak a hell of a lot louder than words and so far you are only words.
And that Ruth is a piece of junk.
Ruth is "dead on" Frank? Dead on?
And please do post the JSA results when you get them. We will all be waiting.
My money is on a turndown,,, any takers?
In the interests of full disclosure, a few months ago, Mr Prisco used my services to examine a handful of autographs.
However, he seems to prefer the services of Mr. Priddy.

[David Atkatz]

Originally Posted by Piedmont Sport

This authentication business really has become a joke. People truly enjoy jumping on an authenticator when they FEEL as though that person made a mistake. It's also great that almost everyone on this thread has mocked PSA and jsa, but then turn around and ask why dont I submit the item to PSA or jsa. It truly sickens me that people really buy loa's on the name of the company. I have a huge file of mistakes by PSA and jsa in my office.

There's a big difference between PSA and JSA, and some of the other "authenticators." Sure, PSA and JSA make loads of mistakes, but they are honest mistakes; a number of people working for them just ain't that good. But I don't think anyone here would accuse them of knowingly vetting garbage. Then you have guys like Morales and Priddy, and quite a few others, who never met a signature they didn't approve of. They don't make mistakes, because they don't really offer an opinion. They sell certificates, plain and simple. Step right up, pay the fee, get a cert. Contract fulfilled.

No one who has seen and handled a dozen or so genuine Ruths, and has more than a passing acquaintance with holography would think for a second that that Ruth note is genuine.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

There's a big difference between PSA and JSA, and some of the other "authenticators." Sure, PSA and JSA make loads of mistakes, but they are honest mistakes; a number of people working for them just ain't that good.

Yeah but they sure do know how to advertise.

[Big Dave]

....and their biggest advertiser is eBay.

[Piedmont Sport]

Sure, PSA and JSA make loads of mistakes, but they are honest mistakes; a number of people working for them just ain't that good. There can't be LOADS of honset mistakes.

Would agree, but ignorance is no excuse. In my real life --- Insurance and Law they take away your licence and remove your practice , Just as they should for many in this field. I cant tell u how many autographs ive purchased from our members that have failed both companies. Which is it - are they good or bad , or really just another answer.
Richard you are correct > over the last 2 months we have sent very little out and have ove 400 items that I would normally have gotten cert'ed. I removed our current EBAY store , and will reopen a corp. one that is only for cert'ed photographs. For our insurance we are required to supply a forensic answer on each item and NO we don't use Moralas. As i stated before i'd rather look for answer's to help all involved. I've met Justin Priddy and have seen him over the last 2 years at the JP ROCK SOLID SHOW - I gave him a handful of items for a test run - at the same time I gave P.A.A.S. aprox. 30 - 40 items on a test run. Each company has treated me fairly and I don't think they are just saying YES they have turned down as many as they have passed almost the same perct. as the big 2 ,,, but we continue our search for an add. company that we feel is a good fit for us. It's difficult to find someone with credentials that are published and not just a company who hires people and signs off on those sigs.

[RichardSimon]

Surprised you would remove your ebay store Frank.
Never heard anyone actually do that.
But you do admit that I was right, but I don't know what you were referring to in my prior post, as being right.
Was I right about you being a hypocrite?
Was I right about the Ruth being a piece of junk?
Was I right about me examining some items for you?
Were you testing me when you sent me items like you tested Priddy and Frost?
I saved all of those items on my computer and just looked at them again, and I know my opinions on them were correct.

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

....and their biggest advertiser is eBay.

ebay and the dealers and auction houses that use them.
But ebay only recommends them, there is a misconception out there that you must use them to post an autograph on ebay.
THAT IS TOTALLY UNTRUE.

[Piedmont Sport]

By the way - ive used a few of the so called PROCLAIMED experts on the forum for certs and they have all failed PSA and JSA 21 items - which we have a file on,,, and for note I had an ABBOTT and COSTELLO signed photo that these forum experts failed ,,, gave it to Justin and he passed it ,, but knew i couldn't realize my price so gave it to JSA and passed - sold it and my buyer and he gave it to PSA passed and was just auctioned off for 18k. The Forum experts told me it was so bad that it looks like a forgery. For accurcey I sold it for 3k ,,,, looks like the jokes on me ,,,, but my point is the auction buyer paid up for the cert ,,,, Richard I don't prefer anyone and I don't ask anyone to pass any item I give them as u know. i'm only looking for the correct answer. I 2 have 25 years of collecting exp. but don't feel it's right for me just to give my company cert and also sell the item > that's a conflict of interest for me > others may think differently. And it's foolish just to say 100% Guarn. return policy - because it's all up to the eyes that view it. For those who do shows were all miffed at the 10 second OK or the QP online --- u can't tell unless the item is in front u and I mean for more then 10 seconds.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Does Justin actually look at this stuff?

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[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Piedmont Sport

By the way - ive used a few of the so called PROCLAIMED experts on the forum for certs and they have all failed PSA and JSA 21 items - which we have a file on,,, and for note I had an ABBOTT and COSTELLO signed photo that these forum experts failed ,,, gave it to Justin and he passed it ,, but knew i couldn't realize my price so gave it to JSA and passed - sold it and my buyer and he gave it to PSA passed and was just auctioned off for 18k. The Forum experts told me it was so bad that it looks like a forgery. For accurcey I sold it for 3k ,,,, looks like the jokes on me ,,,, but my point is the auction buyer paid up for the cert ,,,, Richard I don't prefer anyone and I don't ask anyone to pass any item I give them as u know. i'm only looking for the correct answer. I 2 have 25 years of collecting exp. but don't feel it's right for me just to give my company cert and also sell the item > that's a conflict of interest for me > others may think differently. And it's foolish just to say 100% Guarn. return policy - because it's all up to the eyes that view it. For those who do shows were all miffed at the 10 second OK or the QP online --- u can't tell unless the item is in front u and I mean for more then 10 seconds.

Frank, your post is very hard to decipher.
You seem to be saying that forum experts failed some of your items and then those items were passed by PSA and JSA.
Is that what you are saying? Your meaning is very unclear.
What experts are you talking about?
Are you referring to me?
Are you referring to Kevin Keating?
Are you referring to Reese Yawkley?
If you are I would greatly appreciate seeing those certs you got from PSA or JSA.
I did not examine an Abbott and Costello for you but I know the picture you are referring to.
I would be curious where it sold for $18K because I would like to start sending my Hollywood stuff to an auction company that can get $18K for an Abbott and Costello signed photo.
And you say you are only looking for the correct answer. Well between using PSA, JSA, ACE, myself, Mike Frost, Yawkley and Keating how do you know who is giving you the correct answer when opinions conflict because you submit items to several authenticators in your search for the right answer.

[RichardSimon]

Sorry Justin but my opinion and your opinion differ on that Ruth.

[mr2686]

Looks like it's only the correct answer if someone says the autograph is good and you can realize a return on your investment.

[Piedmont Sport]

i'm not on here to trash people - but i've sent the same items to at 3 experts and try and determine my own thoughts since i'm the one concerned for my clients and my company. and I will not post any failures that JSA or PSA passed ,,,, and u seem to know more then I do Richard. For the record - My trust is at the highest level for many of u,,, and that includes everyone u mentioned - but it's my decision not to let anyone cert my items that also sell,, and I said thats mine and my biz partners decision. And the auction house was Leg. at the national. Also, for the record I would give Kevin Keating any item as he was our choice but his certs say buy and sell. And it's my belief no one knows more about odd sig. then Rhys Yeakley and both guys I would trust with anything > that said > dosen't mean the public knows them. And Richard I have no regrets selling anything u would cert. Understand everyone is playing on a different playing field because of perception because of size of company and advertising. I'm more concerned with the correct answer that I can sell. And i'm not in the biz of bashing. A forum or meeting any place would be great. Rhys texted me letting me know about the Abbott and Costello - I agree somethings sounds crazy.

[Piedmont Sport]

Mike - thats what i'm trying to stop. I'd rather ripe up the item then search for a yes - and YES i'm spending alot of time and money until i'm satisfied with the product i sell. I'm looking for constant anwers on a perc. i can live with as well my insurance coverage.

[Piedmont Sport]

And I never said ACE was the answer. But I know he's not a bad guy. May fall into the not good enough.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Is it ACE or ICE (I Cert Everything)?


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[David Atkatz]

Ahhh... The old light table rears its head.

[Big Dave]

You are correct Richard, a seller can post any autograph on eBay. But, eBay will take PSA or JSA's opinion over anyone else's in regard to the item in question, and if the item has a cert from someone, even you Richard, and PSA/DNA's QO states it is bad, eBay will remove it.

Also, if you have a number of item's that PSA/DNA's QO doesn't like over time, then eBay will remove your account from their website.

So, in a back door sort of way, PSA and JSA are eBay's lap dogs.

But ebay only recommends them, there is a misconception out there that you must use them to post an autograph on ebay.
THAT IS TOTALLY UNTRUE