Looking for a timeline on this TUXEDO pipe tobacco TIN ?

[tedzan]

Perhaps, Jon Canfield will chime in here and identify the Circa of this TUXEDO Pipe Tobacco Tin. I found this TIN this past weekend in an Antique shop
in Southern Jersey.

Anyone else's opinion is also welcomed ?







This TUXEDO advertisement Circa 1912-13 is dated by the stated fact that Heine Zimmerman was the 1912 NL Batting Champion (BA = .372)






TED Z
__________________________________________________ _______________________________
LOOKING for these T206 guys to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (75 cards)

AMES (hands over head)....CAMNITZ (hands over head)....CRAWFORD (bat)....DOYLE (portrait)
McGRAW (portrait-cap)....McQUILLAN (bat)....TINKER (bat off)....WILTSE (portrait-cap)

[T205 GB]

I believe it's 1914. I will see if I can dig my 2 out. I think they have tax stamps still. They are both different designs.

[1880nonsports]

I'd have to do some serious legwork to follow the progression from "pipe" to "special preparation" to "pipe and cigarette" - it will be difficult to find specific dates without a company history HOWEVER suggest as food for thought that your tin is listed as the american tobacco company and that the one in your adv. lists petterson's along with ATC successor. I'm sure you are well versed in the ATC breakup due to your love of the ubiquitous T206's :-) BTW - I can't tell if your example is curved. There were many different configurations and evolutions of the tin - without an obsessed "rag rat" (I made that up) who can assemble a timeline through advertisements (early magazine ads are great for this) - gonna be a tough task Ted. I'll browse a tin book or two for ya when time permits.............

[tedzan]

Andrew and 1880nonsports

I appreciate any info you can provide me regarding the dating of this Tin.


TED Z

[1880nonsports]

atc takes control of Pattersons tobacco brand 1905.................

[Bridwell]

Based on others I've seen I would say 1920's. Not 1910-15.

[T205 GB]

Here is the 2 I have. I believe the rusty one is the same as the picture and the tin is curved. The other with the tax stamp I swear is from the teens but could be wrong. The date used to be there.

[1880nonsports]

andrew - your tin with stamp is from 1950. The other only god knows :-) There are two threads to consider - the "for pipe" "for pipe or cigarette" (CRS whatever the third one was) as mentioned above. The other is to determine the progression that would have followed when ATC took over the brand by examining the verbiage - atc, Patterson's atc successor, patterson's under the ATC brand (there could be more). Ted - you never responded about whether your tin is curved or not. It may become important (as if any of this minutia is really important - but it gives me an excuse to not do what I should be doing). In any event - as time permits I will keep looking and thinking. I couldn't find where the ATC retained the brand after 1914 split YET..........

[1880nonsports]

If I could see the different warning labels - that might help although the warning only changed a few times over a longish span of years. Also the background color and images used changed over time - all food for thought...........

[1880nonsports]

Ted your tin is probably post 1914 based on the front image - but don't throw it away as I'm still working on it...........

[T205 GB]

I am sure Teds tin is the same as mine other than condition. So it is staight and not curved. The rusted tin is probably circa 1900-1910. These are the only 2 styles of tins I have found. Also there are page store counter glass jars and smaller jars available. Have yet to find a tobacco pack though.

[1880nonsports]

and perhaps one more - but I have to address some other stuff :-) The chronology as I see it: Example with Patterson's above Tuxedo and the Patterson's tobacco company on bottom with "specially prepared for pipe and cigarette" is the oldest of those shown dating before 1905. The one shown in the advertisement I suggest is prior to 1914 and after 1905 with Patterson's on the bottom and American tobacco company successor (older seated man image as well - slight differences in image due to the paper one is a rendering). The one with only ATC on the bottom would be after 1914. Andrew there are more variations in the pocket tins than two and more configurations of the containers. Interesting to note they went back to the verbiage about pipe and cigarette. I have to look at a couple of my books and then I'm done. Ted, sorry that I think your tin is a newer example but it still is neat for a display. The green and gold stand out when viewing in person. This thread got me looking around and nothing to do with me but there's a great item on feeBay that's from a long time not overly fantastic seller that's not exactly correctly listed. Ooooops. Hope this doesn't constitute outing.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

This TUXEDO advertisement Circa 1912-13 is dated by the stated fact that Heine Zimmerman was the 1912 NL Batting Champion (BA = .372)

Thanks guys for your inputs on this Tuxedo Tin. I guess we are not yet certain of its vintage ?

Perhaps, this Factory ID on the side of this Tin may provide us a clue......

FACTORY NO. 1, DIST. OF VA



TED Z
__________________________________________________ _______________________________
LOOKING for these T206 guys to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (75 cards)

AMES (hands over head)....CAMNITZ (hands over head)....CRAWFORD (bat)....DOYLE (portrait)
McGRAW (portrait-cap)....McQUILLAN (bat)....TINKER (bat off)....WILTSE (portrait-cap)

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

and perhaps one more - but I have to address some other stuff :-) The chronology as I see it: Example with Patterson's above Tuxedo and the Patterson's tobacco company on bottom with "specially prepared for pipe and cigarette" is the oldest of those shown dating before 1905. The one shown in the advertisement I suggest is prior to 1914 and after 1905 with Patterson's on the bottom and American tobacco company successor (older seated man image as well - slight differences in image due to the paper one is a rendering). The one with only ATC on the bottom would be after 1914. Andrew there are more variations in the pocket tins than two and more configurations of the containers. Interesting to note they went back to the verbiage about pipe and cigarette. I have to look at a couple of my books and then I'm done. Ted, sorry that I think your tin is a newer example but it still is neat for a display. The green and gold stand out when viewing in person. This thread got me looking around and nothing to do with me but there's a great item on feeBay that's from a long time not overly fantastic seller that's not exactly correctly listed. Ooooops. Hope this doesn't constitute outing.

Hey Henry

Don't be sorry....whether this Tin's circa is 1910-15, or its circa is 1920-30 is irrelevant to me. As a former pipe smoker, I was just curious when this pipe tobacco brand
was popular ?

Hope to see you at the National.


TED Z