Jay Publishing question

[AustinMike]

I recently picked up a Jay's Publishing Yankees photo set that I believe was issued in 1962 based on the players in the set. The reason I got it was because of the Kubek photo which wasn't in the 1962 set I had. When I got them, I noticed they are different from photos in the other 1962 set I have and from the other Yankees Jay sets I have. I have attached copies of the Mantle and Arroyo for comparison. The photos on the right are from the set I already had, the new photos are on the left.

Besides the slight cropping difference, I also noticed the difference in the fonts.

Cropping differences are par for the course for different year sets, so maybe I'm wrong thinking these are both 1962. But the different font has me baffled. Has anyone seen other Jay Publishing sets with a similar, small font with the team name appearing to be in italics?

[D.P.Johnson]

I was under the impression the Jay Publishing Photos were issued between 1958 and 1962, so that could be why there are different fonts on some of the cards.

[Cliff Bowman]

Originally Posted by AustinMike

I recently picked up a Jay's Publishing Yankees photo set that I believe was issued in 1962 based on the players in the set. The reason I got it was because of the Kubek photo which wasn't in the 1962 set I had. When I got them, I noticed they are different from photos in the other 1962 set I have and from the other Yankees Jay sets I have. I have attached copies of the Mantle and Arroyo for comparison. The photos on the right are from the set I already had, the new photos are on the left.

Besides the slight cropping difference, I also noticed the difference in the fonts.

Cropping differences are par for the course for different year sets, so maybe I'm wrong thinking these are both 1962. But the different font has me baffled. Has anyone seen other Jay Publishing sets with a similar, small font with the team name appearing to be in italics?

The fonts changed in 1962. The Arroyo and Mantle on the left are from 1961, the Arroyo and Mantle on the right are from the 1962 set. It was common for Jay's Publishing to reuse photos but with different cropping.

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

The fonts changed in 1962. The Arroyo and Mantle on the left are from 1961, the Arroyo and Mantle on the right are from the 1962 set. It was common for Jay's Publishing to reuse photos but with different cropping.

I love this board. My response by email to Mike previously was, "Uhh, I think they are real." It's amazing how much people know and awesome how much they freely share on here.

[AustinMike]

Thanks for the responses, but I still don't think we've got an answer.

Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson

I was under the impression the Jay Publishing Photos were issued between 1958 and 1962, so that could be why there are different fonts on some of the cards.

According to SCD, the photo packs were issued from 1958 to 1965. However, I think they started earlier. I have a 1957 photo pack that uses the same Mantle photo, with yearly cropping differences, from 1957 to 1960 (see 2nd picture below). I also have a 1956 photo set with a different picture and only "Yankees" and not "New York Yankees" but in the same style (see first picture below). In addition, there are sets with the same style (slightly different dimensions though), but again with only "Yankees" and not "New York Yankees" from 1961 to 1967 (see last picture below).

Originally Posted by Cliff Bowman

The fonts changed in 1962. The Arroyo and Mantle on the left are from 1961, the Arroyo and Mantle on the right are from the 1962 set. It was common for Jay's Publishing to reuse photos but with different cropping.

Yes, the font did change in 1962. But, the font on the 1961 photo is depicted in the third attached picture. It is the same font as in the earlier years. The font in the later years is depicted in the pictures on the right in the original post and in the attached 4th and 5th pictures which are from 1963 and 1964.

The font in the pictures on the left in the original post are decidedly different from the other fonts. Is this a third font? Was this used after the first font, maybe got complaints, and changed again to the other more common font? If this is the case, it should appear in other team sets other than the Yankees, but only in the 1962 sets.

So I was just curious if any other Jay set collectors, whether they be Yankees or another team, have photos with that font. I'm also curious as to the year of the set if it does have the different font.

[Harford20]

AustinMike,
I have Red Sox team photos from 1957-1962. I believe the 1957-1959 sets I have (mainly for Ted Williams) are likely Team Issue sets as these photos have ONLY the name of the player. They are still 5"x7" and the photo seems to match some later Jay Publishing cards, but I cannot confirm these should be called Jay Publishing Photos. These all have a block format (as noted in the first photo attached).

In late 1959, (at least for the Red Sox), I can confirm Jay Publishing photos as the team name was added. With this, the font also changed. This was consistent from 1959-1961, and then as you noted, the font again changed again in 1962.

I have studied the Pirates and Yankees Jay photos as well (Mantle and Clemente). The "true" Jay Publishing photos have fonts consistent with the Red Sox fonts that I have.

I have to say, I have never seen the font on the photos that you have posted.

Dave

As a quick side note, the Mantle cropping on the 1957-1960 photos is ridiculous. The cropping of these can be easily missed if you are not looking carefully.

[AustinMike]

Dave, thanks for the input! It's interesting to see the difference in how other team sets were issued. I have Yankee photo sets without a team name, but they are team issued sets that are larger than the Jay photos. Is 1957 the first year that the Red Sox issued photo sets? I have a set of Yankees photos that I believe was issued in 1956 but I've also seen sets with the same photos listed on eBay with an issue date of 1955.

[hcv123]

Don't have a scan(s) handy - I have had many Pirate team sets from 1956-1968. Painstakingly researched their year's. Can't contribute right now to op question, but can say the team photos existed from at least 1956. I believe also some of the real early ones - 1956, 57? May have only had the player name on them.

[Harford20]

AustinMike,
The Red Sox started Team issue photos in 1940. These can be found for nearly every year since that time (1940, 1941, 1942, 1943, 1946, 1947, 1948, 1949, 1950, 1952, 1953, 1954). These are "Red Sox Photo Packs" and look much different that the "Jay-type" photos. These were usually about 7" x9" in size and sepia tone. Again many of the photos were re-used from year to year. As far as I can find, the Red Sox did not do the Jay-type until 1957 (although it actually may have been late 1956 or pre-season 1957). I have not found much variation within the 1957 set (as for example, there are 4 different combinations of players in the actual 1960 Red Sox Jay Publishing photo packs, as players and even the manager changed in 1960). Below I have posted a 1941 and 1946 Ted from the Photo packs.

Dave

[AustinMike]

Harford20, gotcha. The Yankees also had team sets going back to at least the '40s. I only collect the Yankee team sets from 1951 and after, although the earliest I've found in this time period is a 1953 team issued set.

[mikesplace30]

There are three sets from 1962 Jay publishing that have the two font styles. As you know the Yankees are one with the Giants and Twins the others. I don't know the explanation for this smaller font .

[Rich Klein]

The owner of Jay Publishing perished in a plane crash in 1965. That is why the sets stop at that year

Rich

[Exhibitman]

Someone needs to research and publish a comprehensive guide to team issues because there is a ton of confusion.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by mikesplace30

There are three sets from 1962 Jay publishing that have the two font styles. As you know the Yankees are one with the Giants and Twins the others. I don't know the explanation for this smaller font .

Mike, thanks for the input. I wasn't aware that three sets from 1962 had different font styles. Did you learn this from experience or did you read it somewhere?

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Someone needs to research and publish a comprehensive guide to team issues because there is a ton of confusion.

I totally agree!

[mikesplace30]

i own the Yankees and Twins. i have seen the Giants but the price the owner wanted ($250) was outrageous so I declined. As noted, the font for all three are identical and are not 1961's. The photos for the Twins and Giants are identical to the "regular font" sets of 1962.
To the best of my knowledge there are no other teams issued with this font variation.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by mikesplace30

i own the Yankees and Twins. i have seen the Giants but the price the owner wanted ($250) was outrageous so I declined. As noted, the font for all three are identical and are not 1961's. The photos for the Twins and Giants are identical to the "regular font" sets of 1962.
To the best of my knowledge there are no other teams issued with this font variation.

Again, thanks for the info! I'm glad the Kubek picture was different in the Yankee photo pack. Otherwise I wouldn't have gotten the set and then noticed the different font and the different photo cropping of the pictures.

[carlsonjok]

Bumping an old thread.

Are there any Jay collectors out there that can advise how the discern years of publication? I have a Johnny Antonelli player collection and I am trying to make heads or tails out of what I have and what I am missing. I have pulled down what is shown on TCDB and the 1955, 1956 Picture Pack 10 subjects, and 1956 Picture Pack 12 subjects appear identical.

I downloaded the three images, cropped out the borders and created an animated GIF so you can see what I mean:



There is an obvious change in darkness, but that could be an artifact of scanning rather than actual differences in the several issues. Is there a way to differentiate or do I just throw up my hands and say if I have one that I have them all?

[JollyElm]

Nothing against TCDB, but I know they once had an OPC card pictured as the Topps version, and it jumped out at me, because the cropping wasn't right. They ended up changing the listing with the right card pictured.

So, it is possible that three (or even two) of the photos are from the same set. Certainly not saying that's the case, but it is possible that they accidentally overlapped them.

[Rich Klein]

From what I heard Jay's Publishing stopped making the photos because the owner died in a 1965 plane crash and that effectively ended the company.

Also remember that Manny's Baseball Land (across the street from Yankees Stadium and a major mail-order dealer) also made their own photo sets.

The lists in Beckett and TCDB both came mainly from Jack Webster and IMHO you can take those lists to the bank as he (along with a few other dedicated collectors) were very detailed oriented.

Regards
Rich

[JollyElm]

Here's a further mind bender. If the three years of Jay Publishing photos were, in fact, exactly the same as each other, how would anyone know which year any example came from unless they actually had the unopened packaging in front of them?

Whoa!! Now I need to lie down.

[insidethewrapper]

If it doesn't give the name of the city then I believe it is not a "Jay Publishing" issue, but a Stadium Issued Photo. I thought Jay publishing started in 1958 and went thru 1965, all other years ( before and after) are considered stadium issued. Also Stadium photos were issued during 1958-1965 again with only the team name not city ( for example: Tigers vs Detroit Tigers ). There is also a different print or ( letter font) to tell the difference between the Jay Publishing photos from ( 1958-1961 ) Type 1 and Type 2 print for 1962-1965 ).

[carlsonjok]

Originally Posted by Rich Klein

From what I heard Jay's Publishing stopped making the photos because the owner died in a 1965 plane crash and that effectively ended the company.

Also remember that Manny's Baseball Land (across the street from Yankees Stadium and a major mail-order dealer) also made their own photo sets.

The lists in Beckett and TCDB both came mainly from Jack Webster and IMHO you can take those lists to the bank as he (along with a few other dedicated collectors) were very detailed oriented.

Regards
Rich

Thank you, Rich. Is Jack Webster still among the living and is he a member here? I am about where Jolly is and just going to get one of the three and call it good.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by carlsonjok

Bumping an old thread.

Are there any Jay collectors out there that can advise how the discern years of publication? I have a Johnny Antonelli player collection and I am trying to make heads or tails out of what I have and what I am missing. I have pulled down what is shown on TCDB and the 1955, 1956 Picture Pack 10 subjects, and 1956 Picture Pack 12 subjects appear identical.

I downloaded the three images, cropped out the borders and created an animated GIF so you can see what I mean:



There is an obvious change in darkness, but that could be an artifact of scanning rather than actual differences in the several issues. Is there a way to differentiate or do I just throw up my hands and say if I have one that I have them all?

As Jolly Elm has said, you cannot trust TCDB completely. The site has a lot of good info, but not all of it is correct. For instance, the 1958 Yankees team photo set (the non-Jay photo set and non-Action photo set) had a couple of Jay photos shown for a couple of players. In addition, it did not have the correct checklist. I sent a correction to them last fall. I got a question in October about it and quickly responded. I didn't hear back from them until February of this year. The message said my checklist did not match the checklist listed in KeymanCollectibles. My response was that the checklist was wrong and I can send pictures of the set. I never heard back. And now, since then, more Jay photos have been added for the set. So, don't completely trust TCDB info.

At one point I compiled a montage of Mantle photos from the 1957 to 1960 Jay sets. Here it is:

Jay's Mantles 1957 - 1960 shrunk.jpg

As shown, there are various cropping differences between the different years. The first picture is from a 1957 25-photo set. The next is from a 1958 12-photo set. The next two are from 1958 World Series packs (a Yankees 12 photo pack and a Yankees-Braves 24 photo pack). The next two are from a 1959 All-Star pack and a 1959 12-photo Yankee team pack. The next two are from a 1960 All-Star pack and a 1960 12-photo Yankee team pack. I'm not sure about the date for the last one. So, even though the same photo is used each year, there are cropping differences.

I think your best bet is to find someone who has all 3 years of the complete Giant photo packs. They can confirm whether TCDB has the correct photos for each year or whether there is a slight cropping difference between the years.

Good luck!