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#1
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: marty quinn
HELLO TO ALL, I HAVE LOOKED AT THIS CARD MANY TIMES AND I CANT FIGURE OUT IF I AM MISSING SOMETHING OR PSA DID A BAD THING!! PLEASE LOOK AND GIVE YOUR OPINION, THE SELLER IS VERY REPUATABLE IT SEEMS, BUT THE CARD LOOKS HORRIBLY TRIMMED ON THE LEFT SIDE??, NOT A DIAMOND CUT, (WICH TO THE EYE SOMETIMES MAY LOOK LIKE A TRIM)THE LEFT SIDE IS/LOOKS TO BE THE SAME DISTANCE BETWEEN THE CARD AND THE HOLDER, THE RIGT SIDE FROM MIDWAY UP SEEMS TO BE HACKED BY SOMEONE BLIND FOLDED !!!! WHAT AM I MISSING?? NO I DIDNT E MAIL THE SELLER YET BECAUSE I STUMBLED UPON THE AUCTION LATE AND THEN IT ENDED......PLEASE NOTE::: THIS IS NOT A KNOCK ON THE SELLER!!! HE MAY BE A MEMBER ON THIS BOARD FOR ALL I KNOW, AND COULD BE A TOP NOTCH GUY, BUT THE CARD DOES RESIDE IN A PSA HOLDER, AND I AM CURIOS WHAT OTHERS SEE.....THANKS FOR YOUR TIME AND OPINION...... |
#2
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Rob Dewolf
The left side or the right side? Wow, that right edge near the top looks whacked. |
#3
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: marty quinn
hi rob, thats what i am saying!!! could this be one of the worst trimmed jobs betting by a grader?? |
#4
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: peter ullman
that looks pretty pathetic...definitely look trimmed to me! what a ripoff! |
#5
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Tony Andrea
Here's the link. |
#6
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Iggy
I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say it is a bad scan. I'm supporting that statement with my experience scanning cards (and stuff). If you look at the PSA label at the top (the red border which is around the white border label (next to the NM 7 designation)) - it's also wavy. More profound on the right side as opposed to the left side. With a good scanner that would show-up as a straight line. Since that part is wavy, you can make the educated guess that it is the scan and not the card. |
#7
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Mike
Take a look at the certificate numbers preceding cert# 90630968 |
#8
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Dave S
Can't believe the cheapest scanner with an inexperienced user could produce that...a wave is one thing, a whack is another. I think this is definitely a whack.. |
#9
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Matt
It seems nobody bid on this, right? |
#10
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Steve
Doubtful this is a factory cut or a scanner misread. PSA should buy this mullet back in a hurry. |
#11
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Erick Lewin
That's probably the worst trim job i've ever seen on a card graded by a major company! |
#12
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: scott brockelman
Many 1941 Playball cards are handcut from sheets, both normal stock and paper stock cards. Perhaps PSA recognized this as a handcut card and graded it accordingly as to wear? |
#13
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Matt
scott - PSA rejected 6 other 1941 PB cards submitted at the same time for trimming. |
#14
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
When I return back home latter, I'll post some factory cut Play Ball cards with similar cuts. |
#15
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: JimCrandell
Marty, |
#16
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I have more, but the Connie Mack best illustrates what I've said in the prior post on this thread, regarding factory miscut cards. |
#17
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Matt
IMHO - the DiMaggio is much worse then both of those, and coupled with the knowledge that the seller had several other '41 Play Balls rejected for trimming is pretty damming. |
#18
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Joe D.
A factory can mis-cut just one side (easily) - |
#19
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Fred C
In a word.... "unbelieveable" |
#20
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: leon
I am certainly in your corner on this one. I too believe these were probably all factory miscuts. I will take your experience over anyone elses on certain issues.... and this is one of them....PSA should have given an MC qualifier.....just my opinion.... |
#21
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Matt
Leon, Ted - so you guys are suggesting that PSA got it wrong when they rejected 5 other 1941 Play Ball cards that were also submitted on the same invoice for trimming? |
#22
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: leon
What I am saying is I believe 50 yrs experience (or there abouts) with this issue over PSA...you can make out of it what you want to.... |
#23
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I'm repeat-posting my scan (for those who just skip to the "bottom of page").....the Hayes card is narrower than most PlayBall's. |
#24
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Matt
leon - I'm not challenging your experience - I'm just trying to understand your opinion here - I don't understand how they say this one is fine and that others from the same batch are trimmed; it seems inconsistent to me. Either there's an allowance for miscuts which we see with the DiMaggio or there is no allowance and this shouldn't have been slabbed; I don't understand what they did here. |
#25
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: leon
Nothing personal here at all and I am not going to bash PSA....with that being said, as I read what you wrote, I sort of shake my head.....You are inferring that PSA "could" be inconsistent, I believe. I would agree with you on that.....BTW, I don't have 50 yrs experience as that would be 4 yrs before I was born . My guess is that Ted has that much or close to it....I like to try to take my little bit of knowledge from folks that are more experienced than I am (which there are tons of). So yes, I think PSA could have gotten these wrong and there is far less chance (again, imo) that Ted got these wrong........best regards |
#26
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: David Halpen
I remember seeing this Dimaggio in a Mastro auction (or other auction house) within the past 12 months. It was part of mixed graded/raw 1941 Play Ball set. I collect the 1941 set and thought about purchasing this set. However, the Dimaggio turned me off. I contacted the auction house to ask about the origins of the set. They said that the set originated from a collector who compiled the set during the time of issue. In addition, they said that PSA rejected some of the cards as being trimmed (auction stated this). However, the owner was adament that they were not trimmed but factory miscuts which were common with the issue. I do not know whether the collector or the auction house submitted the Dimaggio and other cards from the 1941 set to PSA. My personal experience with this set is that the card was miscut at the factory. It is so poorly cut that I cannot believe that a collector would butcher the card that bad. It is an example of buying the card and not the holder. |
#27
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Jim VB
Matt, |
#28
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Matt
Since it seems I'm being misunderstood, I will clarify. I'm not challenging that the card is or is not miscut/trimmed. I was just trying to understand, those who say it is a factory miscut and is not trimmed, how they understand the PSA results of trimming. If I'm reading correctly, the answer is that PSA got those wrong and none of them were trimmed. |
#29
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Rob
So, seeing that a Dimaggio could be slabbed with an edge like and get such a good grade, what would stop someone from trimming their Dimaggio (that may have a rough edge) at a similar angle and claim its factory-cut? |
#30
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: PC
The Mack is diamond-cut -- it is equally off on both sides (runs in at the top left, and at the bottom right). A diamond cut is a common miscut, but comparing a diamong cut card to a non-diamond cut card tells us nothing, and only highlights the unusualness of the non-diamond cut card. |
#31
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Jim VB
I get you. |
#32
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Joe D.
well, maybe I spoke too soon.... |
#33
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Steve Murray
I've seen a number of rough cut cards given high grades by both PSA and SGC though I have none to show you. The grading companies seem to recognize that that is a factory "defect" and not something that was done to the card after it hit circulation. |
#34
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
You stated...."The Mack is diamond-cut -- it is equally off on both sides (runs in at the top left, and at the bottom right)." |
#35
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: peter ullman
wow...this is getting heated!!! Based on all evidence presented...I'm certainly willing to admit I was wrong...card may not be trimmed...but nonetheless the card should have a mc qualifier...no excuse for that as I've seen lesser centering issues with one! |
#36
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: anthony
i would hate to accuse a seller of wrong doing, but he does consign. maybe it wasnt his to send in. psa holders are the only ones i know that you can open, replace the card, and re-seal. thats why i dont buy them anymore unless i know the dealer. |
#37
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: PC
Just took a ruler to the enlarged scans above. |
#38
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Mark Steinberg
Here's something that bothers me about PSA... They will downgrade a card for poor centering... often times severely. The "off-centering" is original to the card, and is just as manufactured. A card can be mint otherwise, but the "off-centering" will significantly knock down the PSA grade. |
#39
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Bob
It doesn't matter if it is SGC, PSA or GAI, buy the card not the holder. |
#40
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
......you are trying to measure a scan as it appears on your computer screen ? ? ? ? |
#41
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Matt
Ted - when I said the DiMaggio card appears worse, I didn't mean in terms of the centering - clearly the Mack is worse there. What I meant was in terms of suspicion of trimming - the cut on the Mack, while on an angle, appears to go straight all the way up the side. On the DiMaggio, about half way up, the edge takes a severe turn in, which could easily happen by someone trimming the corner but how would it happen when the card was produced? Was the card cut twice - once to make the parallel edge and then a second time to make the angled edge? |
#42
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I fully understand what you are saying and I guess what I am trying to convey here is that I've seen, not only Play Ball's, but also Goudey's |
#43
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: leon
With a whole lot of due respect you did need to clarify a little bit about trimming. I think you are absolutely correct that 25-30 yrs ago folks didn't trim to get a better grade but we KNOW they trimmed cards for personal reasons. I am sure I read where the late Don Macpherson (sp?) trimmed cards to fit into holders when they were too big....Also, just today I learned that many larger cards had their corners clipped (as we see many that are) to fit into holders. So, no, they didn't do it for fraudulent reasons, but they (old time collectors like you, but maybe not you specifically ), did do it....regards |
#44
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: PC
Assuming it the scan doesn't cut-off any of the edges, why should measuring the scan be unreliable? Especially when the scan is 100% larger than the actual card, where a difference in width would be even more exaggerated given the enlarged scale. |
#45
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
What you say is true.....but, I am simply referring to Goudey's and (more notoriously) Play Ball's that I acquired in the '70s |
#46
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: howard
I bought some trimmed cards as a kid thirty years ago at the first card show I ever went to. Trimming wasn't a waste of time because it hardly took any time. |
#47
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Matt
Ted - perhaps trimming 30-40 years ago was done for aesthetic reasons even if kept in one's own collection. |
#48
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Dave S
"I think you will agree with me, that some non-hobby type person who discovered (or inherited) a collection back then, did not actually trim (or even consider doing this to) any of their cards. All they wanted to do was get a fair price for them. Especially, before price guides were even invented (pre-1979)." |
#49
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CLOSED AUCTION, NEED SOME SHARP EYES!!!
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
In all seriousness.....there is a lot of "trimming paranoia" going on nowadays on this Forum. |
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