Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED

[jboosted92]

I’m sorry - but I will die on this hill

The greatest most complete ball player cards are mostly undervalued

This feels like “Brady cards” after 2004

Guy can’t pitch this year ? Ho Hum - gets a 40/40 here in a couple weeks

[Exhibitman]

Wrong board, my dude. This is a pre-1945 board. Your topic belongs in the post-1980 section of the Postwar Cards area.

[BigfootIsReal]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Wrong board, my dude. This is a pre-1945 board. Your topic belongs in the post-1980 section of the Postwar Cards area.

Jesus H. Christ, draw up legal papers then.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by BigfootIsReal

Jesus H. Christ, draw up legal papers then.

Nothing wrong with his post that would warrant your post. Chill out!

[jboosted92]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

Wrong board, my dude. This is a pre-1945 board. Your topic belongs in the post-1980 section of the Postwar Cards area.

Crap. My bad…

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by jboosted92

Crap. My bad…

Great response. BigfootIsReal could learn a thing or two from you.

[CobbSpikedMe]

Ohtani CARDS are Mostly UNDERVALUED

Or, Ohtani is overrated.




.

[raulus]

Next Babe Ruth?

Or…next Pete Rose?

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

The hype machine needed to be turned way down for this guy. You just don't compare someone to Babe Ruth, plain and simple. The odds of living up to such expectations are practically nil. For me personally, all the hype turned me off from caring, but I don't follow modern baseball to begin with.

If the media had toned it down a few notches, far more people would be impressed by him. His stats are pretty nice. .667 PCT over 5 seasons? At this point, he's won exactly twice as many games as he's lost. When Babe Ruth is the bar you're expected to measure up to, you're basically left to twist in the wind if you can't prove you can walk on water.

[Carter08]

I don’t follow him all that much, mostly due to east coast bias, but this year he’ll get his third league MVP award in four years. The year he didn’t win he came in second. Guy is a smooth and powerful wrecking crew. Even if you leave aside the fact that he can be a top line ace (which is a big thing to leave aside), he has to be considered the best or at least a top three player in the game over the last 4 years.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

The hype machine needed to be turned way down for this guy. You just don't compare someone to Babe Ruth, plain and simple. The odds of living up to such expectations are practically nil. For me personally, all the hype turned me off from caring, but I don't follow modern baseball to begin with.

If the media had toned it down a few notches, far more people would be impressed by him. His stats are pretty nice. .667 PCT over 5 seasons? At this point, he's won exactly twice as many games as he's lost. When Babe Ruth is the bar you're expected to measure up to, you're basically left to twist in the wind if you can't prove you can walk on water.

I don't mind the comparisons, because what Ohtani is doing in this era, relative to his peers, is incredible. We're in an age of intense specialization, where players have dietitians and strength coaches, and pitchers come out of academies that focus on spin rate, stride length, release point, etc. etc.

The fact that Ohtani is able to dominate both half-innings in that environment is incredible. I only wish he weren't doing it for the Dodgers.

[Kutcher55]

If his cards are priced like he's a modern day Babe Ruth, he is not undervalued. If he continues on this path and hits 500+ HRs and end up in the HOF then yeah I suppose the cards could go up, but more likely he goes the way of Mike Trout cards, which I have heard are down massively from their covid highs, despite the guy being a guaranteed first ballot HOF'er.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

I don't mind the comparisons, because what Ohtani is doing in this era, relative to his peers, is incredible. We're in an age of intense specialization, where players have dietitians and strength coaches, and pitchers come out of academies that focus on spin rate, stride length, release point, etc. etc.

The fact that Ohtani is able to dominate both half-innings in that environment is incredible. I only wish he weren't doing it for the Dodgers.

Fully agree, and your thoughts came to me after I posted. What you wrote can be seen just by checking out his stats. I must say that I was impressed. That was the first time I've given him much of any thought.

[bk400]

I find it hard to argue that he's overrated as a player for all of the reasons that others have stated. I'd go as far to say that he's one of the top 3 most impressive athletes in the world in any sport, given what he's been able to do in a major market US professional league -- where the sheer amount of money at play ensures a super high level of competitiveness.

In terms of his cards, I find some of his Japanese rookie cards (like some of the short-printed 2013 BBMs and Calbees) to be most interesting. The US ones from 2018 onward are an exercise in artificial scarcity since he was already a hyped star in the making by the time he hit US shores.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by bk400

I find it hard to argue that he's overrated as a player for all of the reasons that others have stated. I'd go as far to say that he's one of the top 3 most impressive athletes in the world in any sport, given what he's been able to do in a major market US professional league -- where the sheer amount of money at play ensures a super high level of competitiveness.

In terms of his cards, I find some of his Japanese rookie cards (like some of the short-printed 2013 BBMs and Calbees) to be most interesting. The US ones from 2018 onward are an exercise in artificial scarcity since he was already a hyped star in the making by the time he hit US shores.

There are a ton of artificially scarce cards that sell for $50,000+ every week in Goldin. Some of them for $150,000+.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

There are a ton of artificially scarce cards that sell for $50,000+ every week in Goldin. Some of them for $150,000+.

LOL, yes but in a few years they will be in bargain bin boxes for $1. Not long ago Yasiel Puig was going to be the greatest ever and his rookie sold for 30k or 40k. PT Barnum would be proud of the pump and dumpers in our hobby.

[packs]

Yasiel Puig didn't win two MVPs and isn't headed toward his third either.

A third MVP for Ohtani would put him in some pretty rarified air and I don't see a single bust among the players on that list except for Rodriguez and Bonds, who cheated, but still enjoy a strong following anyway.

Where's the dollar guy in this group of three time MVPs?

Barry Bonds,
Mike Trout,
Albert Pujols,
Alex Rodriguez,
Mike Schmidt,
Mickey Mantle,
Yogi Berra,
Roy Campanella

[frankbmd]

Yasiel will be on the Hall of Fame ballot soon, Ben. You may have to eat your words.

[ullmandds]

if ohtani's cards are undervalued...then babe ruth cards are a downright bargain.

[rats60]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

The hype machine needed to be turned way down for this guy. You just don't compare someone to Babe Ruth, plain and simple. The odds of living up to such expectations are practically nil. For me personally, all the hype turned me off from caring, but I don't follow modern baseball to begin with.

If the media had toned it down a few notches, far more people would be impressed by him. His stats are pretty nice. .667 PCT over 5 seasons? At this point, he's won exactly twice as many games as he's lost. When Babe Ruth is the bar you're expected to measure up to, you're basically left to twist in the wind if you can't prove you can walk on water.

You can't compare Ruth and Ohtani. Ruth didn't have the option to pitch and DH. If he had, who knows what he could have been. This year, all Ohtani is doing is hitting, he isn't playing in the field. He has an OPS+ of 174. Ruth's career OPS+ was 206 and he played defense too.

As for pitching, Ruth started 147 games, completed 107 games and threw 17 shutouts. Ohtani has started 86 and had 1 complete game and shutout. Ruth led the league in ERA, something Ohtani is yet to do. Ohtani has a better ERA+, but he only pitches 5 1/2 innings per start, unlike Ruth who was expected to go through the lineup more than twice.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by rats60

You can't compare Ruth and Ohtani. Ruth didn't have the option to pitch and DH. If he had, who knows what he could have been. This year, all Ohtani is doing is hitting, he isn't playing in the field. He has an OPS+ of 174. Ruth's career OPS+ was 206 and he played defense too.

As for pitching, Ruth started 147 games, completed 107 games and threw 17 shutouts. Ohtani has started 86 and had 1 complete game and shutout. Ruth led the league in ERA, something Ohtani is yet to do. Ohtani has a better ERA+, but he only pitches 5 1/2 innings per start, unlike Ruth who was expected to go through the lineup more than twice.

Ohtani faces a higher quality player pool post-segregation. So there’s that.

[oldjudge]

And he is not the best hitter in baseball. That would be Aaron Judge (who also plays a solid outfield).

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

And he is not the best hitter in baseball. That would be Aaron Judge (who also plays a solid outfield).

Ohtani and Judge probably the two best hitters in the game. Judge has never pitched to my knowledge.

[packs]

A lot of board people didn't think all that much of Judge either.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by packs

A lot of board people didn't think all that much of Judge either.

Judge is awesome. His late start is what holds him back a little. Looks like he may catch and pass Trout in counting stats before it is over.

[Carter08]

The gambling situation is admittedly a valid response to this, but seriously what is there not to like about Ohtani?

[D. Bergin]

Looks like he has it wrapped up in a weak field this year, especially since Ketel Marte got hurt, but has a DH ever won MVP before?

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Yasiel will be on the Hall of Fame ballot soon, Ben. You may have to eat your words.

Puig will never be on a HOF ballot unless he comes back to the majors for a couple more years.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Ohtani and Judge probably the two best hitters in the game. Judge has never pitched to my knowledge.

At least for now, Soto is in that discussion IMO.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by raulus

Next Babe Ruth?

Or…next Pete Rose?

He's about to become the first 45/45 guy. How is that Pete Rose? Or anything even remotely close to Pete Rose? Rose's career high in HRs was 16 and 20 in SBs.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

And he is not the best hitter in baseball. That would be Aaron Judge (who also plays a solid outfield).

Judge is the best hitter in MLB now for sure. The only other players I'd put in that top echelon are Ohtani and Witt.

[conor912]

Undervalued? Seems to me that first ballot HOF entry is already 1000% baked into everything of his. Every single one of his 100 million cards printed is being treated like gold.

[packs]

I don't think the comparisons to Babe Ruth will ever be in the realm of realistic but Ohtani is clearly playing well above expectations and is in a class of his own in the modern game. But there is no comparing to Ruth. Nobody will ever compare to Ruth.

Ruth hit 59 home runs but he also batted 378 that year. The year he hit 60 he batted 356. He's a career 342 hitter with 714 home runs. Nobody will ever be that good.

And now a card:

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Such a disgusting autograph. With his star power, I wish he'd put a little bit into his own brand by at least adding some recognizable style to it.

Jeter's autograph is not up my alley, either, but you can at least spot it from a mile away. Even Trout's "autograph" is recognizable to so many (can't even be bothered to lift the Sharpie up between a whopping two-lettered autograph). Everyone is so concerned about their "brand". Definitely an overused, nausea-inducing term, but a stylistic, if not even legible autograph should be a part of that. That thing shown above is just a scrawl that an angry toddler could convincingly emulate without even meaning to.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

Such a disgusting autograph. With his star power, I wish he'd put a little bit into his own brand by at least adding some recognizable style to it.

Jeter's autograph is not up my alley, either, but you can at least spot it from a mile away. Even Trout's "autograph" is recognizable to so many (can't even be bothered to lift the Sharpie up between a whopping two-lettered autograph). Everyone is so concerned about their "brand". Definitely an overused, nausea-inducing term, but a stylistic, if not even legible autograph should be a part of that. That thing shown above is just a scrawl that an angry toddler could convincingly emulate without even meaning to.

90 percent or more of modern players sign like this.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

90 percent or more of modern players sign like this.

Doesn't make it right. And precisely why I quit collecting current players' autographs nearly 30 years ago.

[Peter_Spaeth]

...

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

The past was definitely beautiful in more ways than one...

[raulus]

Originally Posted by calvindog

He's about to become the first 45/45 guy. How is that Pete Rose? Or anything even remotely close to Pete Rose? Rose's career high in HRs was 16 and 20 in SBs.

It was a reference to their potential similarities off the field.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At least for now, Soto is in that discussion IMO.

Betts and Witt too. Henderson knocking on the door.

[packs]

Mookie Betts is a good player but he's no Aaron Judge. Even at his peak he is overshadowed:

Betts MVP season: 186 OPS+ - pretty incredible year BUT
Judge MVP season: 210 OPS+ and his OPS+ right now is even better at 226

[jakebeckleyoldeagleeye]

Originally Posted by BillyCoxDodgers3B

The hype machine needed to be turned way down for this guy. You just don't compare someone to Babe Ruth, plain and simple. The odds of living up to such expectations are practically nil. For me personally, all the hype turned me off from caring, but I don't follow modern baseball to begin with.

If the media had toned it down a few notches, far more people would be impressed by him. His stats are pretty nice. .667 PCT over 5 seasons? At this point, he's won exactly twice as many games as he's lost. When Babe Ruth is the bar you're expected to measure up to, you're basically left to twist in the wind if you can't prove you can walk on water.

Bobby Witt Jr, Aaron Judge and Soto could show him what they use gloves for. He's just a glorified DH and the MLB poster boy that the MLB Network shoeshine boys promote.

[Peter_Spaeth]

He's a great enough hitter that the Dodgers may not want to risk a career ending injury by letting him pitch again.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Betts and Witt too. Henderson knocking on the door.

Witt is too young IMO to make any judgments yet.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by packs

Mookie Betts is a good player but he's no Aaron Judge. Even at his peak he is overshadowed:

Betts MVP season: 186 OPS+ - pretty incredible year BUT
Judge MVP season: 210 OPS+ and his OPS+ right now is even better at 226

69.1 WAR and he's only 31. That's more than a "good" player.

[packs]

Sure but he's not Aaron Judge even on his best day and that was my point.

[BigfootIsReal]

IF the Dodgers allow Ohtani to pitch again, I'll take Ohtani over Judge every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[packs]

As a complete player sure but my comment was in reference to who the best hitter in baseball is. I believe it is Judge.

Soto put up a 200 OPS+ in 2020 during a short season. I think you have to go all the way back to Frank Thomas in 1994 to find the last 200 OPS+ season and that was still a strike shortened season.

I am purposely excluding Bonds / McGwire / Sosa for reasons I think are clear.

[ullmandds]

Originally Posted by BigfootIsReal

IF the Dodgers allow Ohtani to pitch again, I'll take Ohtani over Judge every day of the week and twice on Sunday.

You can have him! I'll take the judge!

[BigfootIsReal]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

You can have him! I'll take the judge!

World Series

Ohtani vs Judge

Ten AB's and I say Judge is good for a bloop single