Please show your PRE-American Tobacco Company cigarette pack(s)

[Joe_G.]

Originally Posted by jerrys

Not to go beyond the scope of this thread but it is ironic that Buck Duke, who started the insert card fad to increase demand of the evil weed due to his favored discount advantage for his assisting James Bobsack to perfect the cigarette-rolling machine, ended this highly expensive component of production by stopping competition. This was done by incorporating with the main five tobacco companies.

My record: ATC was formed the end of January 1890. Would your March 1890 DH pack be included as a card carrier? Merger date incorrect? Could it be Goodwin just used up the supply of old DH packs for economic reasons?

I do not know what this sentence means: "The date aligns with my expectations for this 3rd style of Creole pack." I will send you an enlarged image of the Creole tax stamp when I next use the scanner.

The reference card shown just refers to an arbitrary representative card of that series for that pack. The Creole could have been the actress series N330. The N333 is from a reference file - not mine.

Ted did not convert the Kimball’s tax stamp information into readable text. I cannot make it out.

Your great book on Goodwin's Old Judge Cards is most complete. An added benefit to the reader would have been a reference to information on the manufacture and distribution of OJ cards and packs, if in existence.

As an aside, you didn't directly ask about this but I think it of interest to post here . . . Duke wasn't the first to introduce the slide and shell box nor was he the first to introduce inserts/cards. Thomas Hall introduced the slide and shell box way back in 1876 and appears to have begun inserting cards in 1877 or 1878. There are some fantastic threads on this over on the Non-Sport forum, have a look. Hall's Between the Acts cards would continue to be inserted in various forms (many variations, large set) all the way until Thomas Hall joined the ATC in 1895. Duke however is responsible for making the slide and shell popular and all others soon followed. Duke took the plunge and transitioned from paper packs to slide and shell for Cameo cigarettes in May of 1886 however it is unclear when inserts were added. Soon after Duke transitioned the Cameo brand of cigarettes to slide and shell box they moved onto their other brands while in parallel the competition was doing the same. The dates for when cards were inserted into these slide and shell boxes are unknown to me although I'm certain Goodwin made a near immediate jump to both introducing slide and shell and card inserts (Dec. 1886).

ATC merger was popular gossip and reported on through-out 1889 and early 1890 but didn't become official until March of 1890. The first report I can find of discontinuing inserts was by Kimball on March 7th, 1890. A&G continued issuing new card sets that were already in process (Quadrupeds, Wild Animals of the World, etc.). Some cards began being distributed in multiple brands (for example both Goodwin and A&G would issue wild animals of the world). It took awhile for card production to cease.

I commented earlier that I've never seen a Dogs Head pack post ATC merger (post March 1890), but I'm sure they exist. I know Dogs Head (& Old Judge) became popular exports but sales of cigarettes in the US slowed drastically for these old Goodwin brands. If you find a post ATC merger Goodwin pack, it will likely be an export pack (like the one Ted posted).

There are three different styles of Creole cigarette pack for which yours is #3. N321 cards have been found saved in that style pack and it was suspected that the cards and pack date to late 1888. All three issues, N321, N333, & N338-1, are late 1888 issues. I'm less certain on timing of N338-2.

I'm pretty sure there is no dated overprint on Ted's Kimball pack. There was a nice find of High Grade packs that are spread though-out the hobby but they lack dated overprints.