Juan Soto -- looking like a bust for the Mets

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At the halfway point, 19 HR, 45 RBI, .899 OPS. And his BA up to .256.

Indeed, my angst was misplaced. This said, the Mets haven't exactly crushed it of late.

[cgjackson222]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At the halfway point, 19 HR, 45 RBI, .899 OPS. And his BA up to .256.

Soto's been on a tear this month: He's batting .325 with 10 HRs, 18 RBIs, OBP .485, Slugging .753, OPS+ 241 in June

After his 2nd two-homer game in 5 games last night, he has surpassed Jimmie Foxx (who started playing for the Athletics at age 17) for the most muli-Home Run games before turning 27 years old, by doing it 27 times.

Here are top tens for a couple of categories for the season so far:
Times on Base: 1) Judge: 164 2) Ohtani; Devers: 144 4) Tucker: 141 5) Soto: 140 6) Alonso: 135 7) Schwarber: 134 8) Guerrero; Wood 133 10) Raleigh: 131

OPS+: 1) Judge: 226 2) Raleigh: 198 3) Ohtani: 183 4) Will Smith: 161 5) Tucker: 167 6) Alonso: 162 7) Wood: 161 8) Soto 157 9) Aranda: 155 10: Carroll: 149

Soto's career OPS+ is 160, so he is just hair off of his usual pace. That career OPS+ of 160 in the top 20 EVER, and is higher than such players as Musial, Ohtani, DiMaggio, Mays, and Aaron.

Nice to have Soto and Alonso in the top 10 for both categories.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

At the halfway point, 19 HR, 45 RBI, .899 OPS. And his BA up to .256.

And WAR of 3.5 which is 6th in the NL for position players. Pretty sure 29 other teams would take that if the Mets are ready to DFA him.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by jayshum

And WAR of 3.5 which is 6th in the NL for position players. Pretty sure 29 other teams would take that if the Mets are ready to DFA him.

Had Yankee fans ask me with a straight face in February "are you glad the Mets got him?"

"NO . . . I'm afraid he's going to cut into playing time for Travis Jankowski."

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Had Yankee fans ask me with a straight face in February "are you glad the Mets got him?"

"NO . . . I'm afraid he's going to cut into playing time for Travis Jankowski."

Jankowski does have better hair than Soto

[jayshum]

Soto named NL player of the month for June.Good thing for the Mets they didn't DFA him 6 weeks into a 15 year deal.

[Pat R]

April AVG 232 HR 2 RBI 10 mets record 19-8
May AVG 219 HR 6 RBI 15 mets record 15-12
June AVG 322 HR 11 RBI 20 mets record 12-15

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Soto named NL player of the month for June.

Given what the Mets are paying him, he should be the MVP every month.

[SyrNy1960]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Given what the Mets are paying him, he should be the MVP every month.

Soto’s no longer a Yankee, so you don’t have to hate him so much

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Given what the Mets are paying him, he should be the MVP every month.

Pretty sure Babe Ruth had a bad month or two every now and then.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Pat R

April AVG 232 HR 2 RBI 10 mets record 19-8
May AVG 219 HR 6 RBI 15 mets record 15-12
June AVG 322 HR 11 RBI 20 mets record 12-15

Does show how much baseball is a team sport that relies on multiple players. It's hard for one player to really impact a team's overall record.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by SyrNy1960

Soto’s no longer a Yankee, so you don’t have to hate him so much

Well, yes, I'm willing to concede on that point.

[Seaver]

Originally Posted by bk400

I had my doubts about that signing, and the eye test is beginning to confirm those doubts. It's not just the fact that he's had a slow start to the season. Having watched him play now many times in a Mets uniform, I think he's a loafer on the field and on the base paths. I'm not sure if it is because he is just slow or if he is lazy. Or if he just doesn't care as much now that he will be billionaire if he manages his money properly.

Good take by the Yankees.

I guess Soto thought different than you, look at him now.

[Snapolit1]

First ballot hall of famer for sure.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The batting average is a little low, but turns out to be a pretty decent season after all.

https://www.mlb.com/player/juan-soto-665742

[Beercan collector]

38 home runs is worth a lot of money , 29 steals, 109 runs, 93 rbis, Leads the league in walks and on base percentage

[bk400]

Yep, you guys are right. He's putting up good numbers for the good guys. Probably a good bet to make the Hall.

But I still don't like him. I'd rather watch Mike Trout with one good knee. Or Nestor Cortes dusting himself off and hanging in there with everyone booing him.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Speaking of Trout, in a way it's sad to watch him apparently relegated to being a .230 hitter for a mediocre team.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Speaking of Trout, in a way it's sad to watch him apparently relegated to being a .230 hitter for a mediocre team.

It is sad in a way, but I really admire him for sticking with the Angels when he could've pulled the rip cord. He never badmouths his teammates. He'll be a first ballot, inner circle Hall of Famer who played in one jersey. Respect.

[packs]

I didn’t realize Soto was closing in on a 30-30 season. Sneaky.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by packs

I didn’t realize Soto was closing in on a 30-30 season. Sneaky.

Will end with over 40 HRs.

Will easily hit 100 RBI.

Will end with about 130-140 walks.

30 stolen bases so far. Career average is 12.

Yeah, a real bust.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bk400

I had my doubts about that signing, and the eye test is beginning to confirm those doubts. It's not just the fact that he's had a slow start to the season. Having watched him play now many times in a Mets uniform, I think he's a loafer on the field and on the base paths. I'm not sure if it is because he is just slow or if he is lazy. Or if he just doesn't care as much now that he will be billionaire if he manages his money properly.

Good take by the Yankees.

Originally Posted by packs

I didn’t realize Soto was closing in on a 30-30 season. Sneaky.

Not bad for a slow, lazy loafer, and disinterested potential billionaire.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Not bad for a slow, lazy loafer, and disinterested potential billionaire.

Not attacking you personally, but you realize that essentially every player in the last 50 years who has been called a lazy loafer who doesn't care is either Hispanic or black? Started some after integration and continues to this day. Weird coincidence? Even Roberto Clemente was a lazy loafer. Look it up.

[Balticfox]

Mark McGwire (the daily starter with a grand total of 12 stolen bases over 16 years) was a lazy loafer. That's why he took steroids and did nothing but swing for the fences. He knew that a HR or a strikeout meant that he wouldn't have to run the bases.

[Snapolit1]

Baseball fans are great …..

Lindor has been criticized for years for smiling too much.

This year Soto has been criticized for not smiling enough.

I wish someone could explain to these guys exactly how often they should be smiling.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Juan Soto has a 42 career WAR already. Juan Soto is .... wait for it.... 26. Anything can happen to anyone, of course, it's baseball, but this is a generational player we are talking about at this juncture.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Not attacking you personally, but you realize that essentially every player in the last 50 years who has been called a lazy loafer who doesn't care is either Hispanic or black? Started some after integration and continues to this day. Weird coincidence? Even Roberto Clemente was a lazy loafer. Look it up.

I think that we should be able to have virtual barstool debates about players' effort, or lack thereof, without insinuations that someone may be racist.

Look at Juan Soto's tape from May and June, after he signed a guaranteed $765 million contract. I don't think it's unfair to say that he looked either very slow or lazy. If PCA played like that, fans would also call him either very slow or lazy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bk400

It is sad in a way, but I really admire him for sticking with the Angels when he could've pulled the rip cord. He never badmouths his teammates. He'll be a first ballot, inner circle Hall of Famer who played in one jersey. Respect.

I've seen pictures of Trout hanging out with groups of kids which really should be on display in the Hall of Fame, as they speak to the essence of what baseball can and should be. Total class act.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Juan Soto has a 42 career WAR already. Juan Soto is .... wait for it.... 26. Anything can happen to anyone, of course, it's baseball, but this is a generational player we are talking about at this juncture.

I'll repeat what I said earlier in this thread. The Mets will have plenty of teams willing to take him off their hands if they want to get rid of him.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Not attacking you personally, but you realize that essentially every player in the last 50 years who has been called a lazy loafer who doesn't care is either Hispanic or black? Started some after integration and continues to this day. Weird coincidence? Even Roberto Clemente was a lazy loafer. Look it up.

I was being sarcastic. 1st quote bubble above my response for the context.

[GrayGhost]

Little early for HOF for Soto

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by bk400

I think that we should be able to have virtual barstool debates about players' effort, or lack thereof, without insinuations that someone may be racist.

I agree. The last thing we need on this forum is race baiting remarks.

[Peter_Spaeth]

False alarm. Nobody is race baiting.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I've seen pictures of Trout hanging out with groups of kids which really should be on display in the Hall of Fame, as they speak to the essence of what baseball can and should be. Total class act.

I agree. He and Ohtani both represent the sport very well.

On a tangentially related note, you know who runs out every single ground ball at 110 percent? Ohtani's teammate, Hyeseong Kim. Every single ground ball he thinks he's going to beat it out.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bk400

I agree. He and Ohtani both represent the sport very well.

On a tangentially related note, you know who runs out every single ground ball at 110 percent? Ohtani's teammate, Hyeseong Kim. Every single ground ball he thinks he's going to beat it out.

Not always the most efficient play in baseball, but watching Willie Wilson or Ichiro lay down a normally routine ground ball, and watch them try to leg it out for an infield single was always incredibly exciting.

Neither guy walked a lot, so that was sort of their way of getting on base that wasn’t in most players toolboxes.

[Snapolit1]

Soto is the best player on the team and one of the slowest.
Him busting ass up the line like a madman so he can beat one maybe two throws a year makes no sense.
Rickey was likewise criticized. He didn’t give a shit. He refused to walk through airports. Always took the moving walkways and escalators. Said he would only use his legs when he had to.

(Rickey was moody and lazy too, if you are keeping count. Him, Mays, Aaron, Allen, Winfield, Gibson, Clemente, Reggie, etc.)

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Soto is the best player on the team and one of the slowest.
Him busting ass up the line like a madman so he can beat one maybe two throws a year makes no sense.
Rickey was likewise criticized. He didn’t give a shit. He refused to walk through airports. Always took the moving walkways and escalators. Said he would only use his legs when he had to.

(Rickey was moody and lazy too, if you are keeping count. Him, Mays, Aaron, Allen, Winfield, Gibson, Clemente, Reggie, etc.)

That's the great thing about baseball -- each of us can choose which players to support and which narratives resonate most strongly. I personally appreciate players who hustle down the line to first on routine ground balls.

I didn't like Rickey Henderson. I thought he was a showboat who liked to show people up. I preferred watching Tim Raines and Vince Coleman, if I wanted to see speed on the basepaths. You might think that Rickey's accolades made him worth watching even though he didn't give a sh*t. Same with Juan Soto, perhaps. I prefer to watch guys who do give a sh*t, especially when those guys are on a $765mm guaranteed contract.

I'm not sure the racial overtones of your comments are fair. No one said that Juan Soto is slow or lazy because of his race or ethnic background. It shouldn't be the case that if you say that a non-white player looks slow or lazy that you're some sort of bigot.

And finally, Lindor is the best player on the Mets. Maybe he doesn't have Soto's stats, but when Soto was having his billionaire baby mood swings back in May and June, it was Lindor who was out there in public defending him -- and it was his leadership that seemed to be keeping the Mets competitive.

[packs]

There is nothing wrong with showboating if you’re the best at what you do. Ali did a lot of talking too. Rickey could say anything he liked. He was going to steal the base anyway and there was nothing you could do about it.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by packs

There is nothing wrong with showboating if you’re the best at what you do. Ali did a lot of talking too. Rickey could say anything he liked. He was going to steal the base anyway and there was nothing you could do about it.

Yeah, it's fair to say that Rickey "earned" the right to showboat, but there are plenty others who also did, but chose not to, and I prefer watching them. I mean, look at Hank Aaron after he hit 715 and compared that image with Rickey after, well, many plays -- and not just his milestone ones.

Different strokes for different folks. It's like in football. Neon Deion was absolutely awesome, but Charles Woodson and Rod Woodson were really the guys to watch in my opinion.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by bk400

Yeah, it's fair to say that Rickey "earned" the right to showboat, but there are plenty others who also did, but chose not to, and I prefer watching them. I mean, look at Hank Aaron after he hit 715 and compared that image with Rickey after, well, many plays -- and not just his milestone ones.

Different strokes for different folks. It's like in football. Neon Deion was absolutely awesome, but Charles Woodson and Rod Woodson were really the guys to watch in my opinion.

Did you know that Hank Aaron was never ejected from a game?

I just found that out a few weeks ago. Class act.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Soto is the best player on the team and one of the slowest.

Him busting ass up the line like a madman so he can beat one maybe two throws a year makes no sense.

Busting his ass worked for Pete Rose.

Originally Posted by bk400

Yeah, it's fair to say that Rickey "earned" the right to showboat, but there are plenty others who also did, but chose not to, and I prefer watching them.

Nor do I remember Pete Rose ever being criticized for showboating. It is possible of course that I never noted it at the time because quite simply I didn't care.

[BobbyStrawberry]

If Soto is a bust, what does a non-bust look like?

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

If Soto is a bust, what does a non-bust look like?

You want to see something remarkable. Just go to Baseball Reference and check out his "Splits". Pick a year, pick his career splits, it doesn't matter much.

Home/Away
First Half/Second Half
Month to Month

Playoffs he's about the same as he is in the regular season.

Only real deviance is, he generally starts off the season a little slow, and he hits Right Handed Pitching a little bit better then left handed pitching.

But....he is what he is what he is what he is.................

It's part of what got him paid what he got paid for so many years. He's one of the most predictable players from a production standpoint, in history.

He might not ever win an MVP, and he might always be a Robin to his teams Batman, but he is consistent at what he does, and teams throwing money at players love that.

Whether that stays the course for the next 14 years is to be determined. I'm sure the Mets will be happy if it stays that way for the next 8-10 years or so.

[bk400]

The last two times I posted on this thread, the Mets pulled out of losing streaks. So I'm going to dog on Juan Soto in hopes of ensuring reserve karma occurs and they don't pull a 2007 and choke at the finish line (down 4-2 now against the Nationals).

We're paying him something like 50% to 100% more than Shohei Ohtani (depending on the discount rate you use -- Ohtani's contract is much more backended than Soto's) -- even more if Juan Soto tries to opt out in 2029 and the Mets have to pay more on top of the $765mm to void his opt out.

If the Mets win it all this year, it will all be worth it. But I maintain my suspicion that Juan Soto is to 2025 as Kevin McReynolds is to 1986.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by bk400

The last two times I posted on this thread, the Mets pulled out of losing streaks. So I'm going to dog on Juan Soto in hopes of ensuring reserve karma occurs and they don't pull a 2007 and choke at the finish line (down 4-2 now against the Nationals).

We're paying him something like 50% to 100% more than Shohei Ohtani (depending on the discount rate you use -- Ohtani's contract is much more backended than Soto's) -- even more if Juan Soto tries to opt out in 2029 and the Mets have to pay more on top of the $765mm to void his opt out.

If the Mets win it all this year, it will all be worth it. But I maintain my suspicion that Juan Soto is to 2025 as Kevin McReynolds is to 1986.

8-4 Mets! Juan Soto just capped a 6-run 4th inning with a 3-run home run. I'm going to watch every Mets game from this exact same spot for the rest of the year.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

You want to see something remarkable. Just go to Baseball Reference and check out his "Splits". Pick a year, pick his career splits, it doesn't matter much.

Home/Away
First Half/Second Half
Month to Month

Playoffs he's about the same as he is in the regular season.

Only real deviance is, he generally starts off the season a little slow, and he hits Right Handed Pitching a little bit better then left handed pitching.

But....he is what he is what he is what he is.................

It's part of what got him paid what he got paid for so many years. He's one of the most predictable players from a production standpoint, in history.

He might not ever win an MVP, and he might always be a Robin to his teams Batman, but he is consistent at what he does, and teams throwing money at players love that.

Whether that stays the course for the next 14 years is to be determined. I'm sure the Mets will be happy if it stays that way for the next 8-10 years or so.

Agreed. And 33 stolen bases! That's more than his last 3 years combined.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Agreed. And 33 stolen bases! That's more than his last 3 years combined.

So we know he isn't slow. He's just lazy

[Snapolit1]

Right now, Soto might be the best hitter I have ever watched. Eye. Brute power. Bat speed. I’m pretty speechless over his recent hitting. Must be nice to be so good hitting a baseball.