Juan Soto -- looking like a bust for the Mets

[Peter_Spaeth]

Speaking of Trout, in a way it's sad to watch him apparently relegated to being a .230 hitter for a mediocre team.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Speaking of Trout, in a way it's sad to watch him apparently relegated to being a .230 hitter for a mediocre team.

It is sad in a way, but I really admire him for sticking with the Angels when he could've pulled the rip cord. He never badmouths his teammates. He'll be a first ballot, inner circle Hall of Famer who played in one jersey. Respect.

[packs]

I didn’t realize Soto was closing in on a 30-30 season. Sneaky.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by packs

I didn’t realize Soto was closing in on a 30-30 season. Sneaky.

Will end with over 40 HRs.

Will easily hit 100 RBI.

Will end with about 130-140 walks.

30 stolen bases so far. Career average is 12.

Yeah, a real bust.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bk400

I had my doubts about that signing, and the eye test is beginning to confirm those doubts. It's not just the fact that he's had a slow start to the season. Having watched him play now many times in a Mets uniform, I think he's a loafer on the field and on the base paths. I'm not sure if it is because he is just slow or if he is lazy. Or if he just doesn't care as much now that he will be billionaire if he manages his money properly.

Good take by the Yankees.

Originally Posted by packs

I didn’t realize Soto was closing in on a 30-30 season. Sneaky.

Not bad for a slow, lazy loafer, and disinterested potential billionaire.

[Snapolit1]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Not bad for a slow, lazy loafer, and disinterested potential billionaire.

Not attacking you personally, but you realize that essentially every player in the last 50 years who has been called a lazy loafer who doesn't care is either Hispanic or black? Started some after integration and continues to this day. Weird coincidence? Even Roberto Clemente was a lazy loafer. Look it up.

[Balticfox]

Mark McGwire (the daily starter with a grand total of 12 stolen bases over 16 years) was a lazy loafer. That's why he took steroids and did nothing but swing for the fences. He knew that a HR or a strikeout meant that he wouldn't have to run the bases.

[Snapolit1]

Baseball fans are great …..

Lindor has been criticized for years for smiling too much.

This year Soto has been criticized for not smiling enough.

I wish someone could explain to these guys exactly how often they should be smiling.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Not attacking you personally, but you realize that essentially every player in the last 50 years who has been called a lazy loafer who doesn't care is either Hispanic or black? Started some after integration and continues to this day. Weird coincidence? Even Roberto Clemente was a lazy loafer. Look it up.

I think that we should be able to have virtual barstool debates about players' effort, or lack thereof, without insinuations that someone may be racist.

Look at Juan Soto's tape from May and June, after he signed a guaranteed $765 million contract. I don't think it's unfair to say that he looked either very slow or lazy. If PCA played like that, fans would also call him either very slow or lazy.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by bk400

I think that we should be able to have virtual barstool debates about players' effort, or lack thereof, without insinuations that someone may be racist.

I agree. The last thing we need on this forum is race baiting remarks.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Not attacking you personally, but you realize that essentially every player in the last 50 years who has been called a lazy loafer who doesn't care is either Hispanic or black? Started some after integration and continues to this day. Weird coincidence? Even Roberto Clemente was a lazy loafer. Look it up.

I was being sarcastic. 1st quote bubble above my response for the context.

[GrayGhost]

Little early for HOF for Soto

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by bk400

It is sad in a way, but I really admire him for sticking with the Angels when he could've pulled the rip cord. He never badmouths his teammates. He'll be a first ballot, inner circle Hall of Famer who played in one jersey. Respect.

I've seen pictures of Trout hanging out with groups of kids which really should be on display in the Hall of Fame, as they speak to the essence of what baseball can and should be. Total class act.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I've seen pictures of Trout hanging out with groups of kids which really should be on display in the Hall of Fame, as they speak to the essence of what baseball can and should be. Total class act.

I agree. He and Ohtani both represent the sport very well.

On a tangentially related note, you know who runs out every single ground ball at 110 percent? Ohtani's teammate, Hyeseong Kim. Every single ground ball he thinks he's going to beat it out.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by bk400

I agree. He and Ohtani both represent the sport very well.

On a tangentially related note, you know who runs out every single ground ball at 110 percent? Ohtani's teammate, Hyeseong Kim. Every single ground ball he thinks he's going to beat it out.

Not always the most efficient play in baseball, but watching Willie Wilson or Ichiro lay down a normally routine ground ball, and watch them try to leg it out for an infield single was always incredibly exciting.

Neither guy walked a lot, so that was sort of their way of getting on base that wasn’t in most players toolboxes.

[Snapolit1]

Soto is the best player on the team and one of the slowest.
Him busting ass up the line like a madman so he can beat one maybe two throws a year makes no sense.
Rickey was likewise criticized. He didn’t give a shit. He refused to walk through airports. Always took the moving walkways and escalators. Said he would only use his legs when he had to.

(Rickey was moody and lazy too, if you are keeping count. Him, Mays, Aaron, Allen, Winfield, Gibson, Clemente, Reggie, etc.)

[bk400]

Originally Posted by Snapolit1

Soto is the best player on the team and one of the slowest.
Him busting ass up the line like a madman so he can beat one maybe two throws a year makes no sense.
Rickey was likewise criticized. He didn’t give a shit. He refused to walk through airports. Always took the moving walkways and escalators. Said he would only use his legs when he had to.

(Rickey was moody and lazy too, if you are keeping count. Him, Mays, Aaron, Allen, Winfield, Gibson, Clemente, Reggie, etc.)

That's the great thing about baseball -- each of us can choose which players to support and which narratives resonate most strongly. I personally appreciate players who hustle down the line to first on routine ground balls.

I didn't like Rickey Henderson. I thought he was a showboat who liked to show people up. I preferred watching Tim Raines and Vince Coleman, if I wanted to see speed on the basepaths. You might think that Rickey's accolades made him worth watching even though he didn't give a sh*t. Same with Juan Soto, perhaps. I prefer to watch guys who do give a sh*t, especially when those guys are on a $765mm guaranteed contract.

I'm not sure the racial overtones of your comments are fair. No one said that Juan Soto is slow or lazy because of his race or ethnic background. It shouldn't be the case that if you say that a non-white player looks slow or lazy that you're some sort of bigot.

And finally, Lindor is the best player on the Mets. Maybe he doesn't have Soto's stats, but when Soto was having his billionaire baby mood swings back in May and June, it was Lindor who was out there in public defending him -- and it was his leadership that seemed to be keeping the Mets competitive.