Now that all the lying is done...do you think clemens makes the hall?

[David Atkatz]

Joe Jackson was acquitted, too.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Gets in his first year of eligibility (2013?)

[Leon]

I watched one of the judges (voters) commenting on TV yesterday. He said he will never vote for him and he believes his sentiments echo most of the people voting. I think he said he didn't see it happening in the next 30 yrs.

[bbcard1]

I think it all depends on attitude and don't think it can't change. There will likely come a time where voters will have to say,"If we wish to reflect the history of our national game, we must include someone besides Ken Griffey, Jr and Craig Biggio in that two decade span." May or may not happen, but outrage fades.

[packs]

I don't think Clemens will get in. I DO think Pettitte will get in eventually.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by packs

I don't think Clemens will get in. I DO think Pettitte will get in eventually.

I think the guys who admitted to usage may get in...I think Pete Rose would get in if the commissioner would reinstate him simply because he finally admitted to betting on baseball. All that anyone wanted was a confession, and I think that's the case with the steroid crowd too.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Gets in his first year of eligibility (2013?)

like bonds, 2nd year of eligibility. they were far superior than the other "steroid guys" and shouldn't be lumped.

[kkkkandp]

I think Jay is right - players like Bonds and Clemens were extraordinary talents and should eventually get in. The voters will just torture them before it happens.

I'm a Yankee fan, but I disagree that Andy Pettite should be a HOFer. There are other pitchers I'd rather see get in. I even think one of Pettite's contemporaries - Mike Mussina - is more deserving that he is.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

Joe Jackson was acquitted, too.

Yes, but he was banned from baseball, and ineligible.

[packs]

I think Dan has it right. Andy is a stand up guy. He admitted what he did and the public forgave him. He never passed the blame onto someone other than himself.

Not to mention only one 500 season in a 17 year career, no losing seasons, winning 100 more games than he lost and his incredible post season numbers.

[iwantitiwinit]

Honestly I don't even care. First I will say he was proven innocent in a court of law so I have to accept that. I do however think he is clearly guilty, it is impossible to fabricate dna evidence and while the chain of custody is in question I don't see any plausible way his dna could get on that needle other than receiving a shot. Given that he should not make the hall of fame in my opinion and think many sportswriters will feel similarly. What irks me is that the gov't brings a case they know they can't win and now because he is found not guilty in a court of law it lends creditability to him. Ridiculous. Who even cares anymore its a sham. Just my opinion though of course.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by packs

I think Dan has it right. Andy is a stand up guy. He admitted what he did and the public forgave him. He never passed the blame onto someone other than himself.

Pettite's misremembering during his testimony at the trial was a large part in Clemens being acquitted. He lied on the stand, he's not stand-up guy.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Pettite's misremembering during his testimony at the trial was a large part in Clemens being acquitted. He lied on the stand, he's not stand-up guy.

Nah, it was just a skillful cross-examination.

[CMIZ5290]

Jeff's exactly right about this flake....screw him

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Nah, it was just a skillful cross-examination.

Except it was on direct too

[murcerfan]

the real question here is why our "broke" federal government is spending money on these witch hunts.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Pettite's misremembering during his testimony at the trial was a large part in Clemens being acquitted. He lied on the stand, he's not stand-up guy.

How true.

It's estimated that this trial cost the taxpayers roughly $2M. Pettite should pick up the tab, because he waffled on his prior testimony and the prosecution was counting on Pettite. It's rather doubtful if the Feds would have pursued Clemens otherwise.

[HRBAKER]

I lost all respect I had for Mr. Petitte.
He either lied before or now, either is unacceptable.
As for Roger, he's lost in the court of public opinion at any rate.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I have seen/met Roger Clemens many times around town. I have actually spent time in the home of Andy Pettitte and had a nice conversation with him. Met his wife and kids as well. I don't care if he lied or not. Makes no difference to me. Lying doesn't mean that he's not a stand up guy. Who here has never told a lie? Come on, speak up (or shut up!!!)!

[packs]

You guys are entitled to your opinions about Andy, but how would you react if the cops told you it was up to you to put your friend in jail? You might give your friend an out too. I know I would if I knew it was me who would be sending him to prison. I love my friends. Even if I don't like them.

[oldjudge]

I think Clemens and Bonds (and we might as well lump Arod with these guys) were so far superior to the players of their era and, whether they did steroids or not, that they deserve to get in. I agree that either will be hard pressed to make it on the first ballot, but I think they will get in. Palmeiro was not a dominant player of his era, just an accumulator of stats IMO. I would not have been a fan of his getting in with or without steroids. McGwire was a one dimensional player and I am not that upset that he is not in. Clemens and Bonds are different.
BTW, Griffey is a first ballot HOFer and IMO Biggio is not a HOFer, regardless of his hit total, but he will probably get in. Ozzie Smith was no HOFer either (just thrown in since I think that his getting in was the biggest joke since Tommy McCarthy getting in).

[zljones]

I sincerly hope not. No juiceheads she be in. No Bonds, Giambi, Canseco, or any juice heads. Let in Pete Rose or Joe Jackson instead!

[packs]

I don't think numbers or talent has anything to do with the steroids guys not getting in. I think it all boils down to admitting what you did. Even A-rod sort of admitted using. Bonds and Clemens will never admit what they did, so they should never get into the HOF.

[bn2cardz]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Ozzie Smith was no HOFer either (just thrown in since I think that his getting in was the biggest joke since Tommy McCarthy getting in).

Not to fully defend Ozzie Smith's induction, rather defend it being the biggest joke since Tommy McCarthy, Luis Aparicio was very similar to Ozzie and he is in.

So there were other players between McCarthy and O.Smith to make the statement "...since Tommy McCarthy" false.

[packs]

I think Mussina and Pettitte are both HOFers. I think Mussina's career numbers are better but I think Pettitte is the superior pitcher. Andy is the guy you want on the mound with the game on the line. I don't think the same can be said for Mussina.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

I don't see Clemens getting in the Hall for quite a while. If McGwire and Palmiero can only get 20% of the votes, I don't see the writers making an exception for Clemens (or Bonds), both who probably would have made the Hall prior to the scandal.

[7nohitter]

I don't see Mussina getting in....good pitcher for a short amount of time...