PSA vs SGC...the definitive Debate!!!

[bobbyw8469]

David, PSA has something called a "Grade Guarantee". They are humans, same as the SGC graders grading mint vending box cards as 4's. The card you show was turned in for their "Grade Guarantee", reassigned the proper grade, and a check was cut for the monetary difference. Your disdain for PSA shows constantly, however, I can show you problems with BOTH graders. Let Big Chief rest.

[glynparson]

Agree 100%. SGC has made similar errors. In fact Id bet on percentage of cards graded the numbers are extremelly accurate.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by glynparson

Agree 100%. SGC has made similar errors. In fact Id bet on percentage of cards graded the numbers are extremelly accurate.

You may agree 100%, but you couldn't be any more wrong. Show me one SGC card with paper loss that is graded a 4 or higher. I can show you many PSA cards with paper loss that are graded a 4 or higher.

[whitehse]

Isnt this just a case of personal preference and to argue this issue is a moot point?

I dont understand the need to have this type of thread once a year when in the end it is only a personal choice of which TPG we all like and use (or dont use as the case may be).

[ullmandds]

DO NOT DIMINISH THE VALUE OF THIS POLL...the results will be definitive and FINAL!!!!! After the poll is over...and the results tabulated...there will be no reason to ever...ever discuss 3PG'raders!!!!!

Please Cooperate!

[glynparson]

Listen I worked there I saw buybacks come in all the time. You have no clue. particularly from the Joe Merkel era, they have many bad graded cards. I have seen the results you're just being a fanboy. There are many cards outside the centering standards, cards with writing, poorly trimmed cards with number grades, and yes they have even missed paper loss. I don't make it a point to collect scans so i don't have any, i collect cards. Trust me I personally like the guys at SGC much more than PSA but I don't think as a whole they've done any better than PSA despite the wishes and beliefs of some on this board. Just because Michael for years offered hand holding customer service, which many of you appreciated for good reason, does not make the graders any better. I have no more faith in Bob's abilities than anyones at PSA. I do think Scott is a better grader than anyone at PSA, including Reza, on a regular persons submission.

[JohnP0621]

Regardless of who you like better. I think that both grading companys probably make a mistake on less than 1 out of every 100 cards. Both companys use humans to grade their cards . Sometimes I get a card graded and feel that it should have graded higher but other times I feel I got a better grade than the card deserves. But 99% of the time the grade is accurate. That happens with both graders. If you dont like the service dont use it. But grading is here to stay. So lets just move on to another subject.

John P

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

David, PSA has something called a "Grade Guarantee". They are humans, same as the SGC graders grading mint vending box cards as 4's. The card you show was turned in for their "Grade Guarantee", reassigned the proper grade, and a check was cut for the monetary difference. Your disdain for PSA shows constantly, however, I can show you problems with BOTH graders. Let Big Chief rest.

I agree with Bobby on this one, I've purchased many undergraded cards in SGC holders... Seller beware, I guess. Maybe you forgot to buddy up wih the graders. Next time bring pizza and beer.

I think SGC is too carefull with grades sometimes. The seller ends up losing our in these situations.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

I agree with Bobby on this one, I've purchased many undergraded cards in SGC holders... Seller beware, I guess. Maybe you forgot to buddy up wih the graders. Next time bring pizza and beer.

I think SGC is too carefull with grades sometimes. The seller ends up losing our in these situations.

I agree with Bobby on this one too. His card looks better than an 84. I also agree that I have purchased many undergraded cards in SGC holders and yes, maybe it means SGC is being too carefull (conservative) with grades.

However, if you are a buyer, isn't that a good thing (wouldn't you want a better looking card for a better price) or am I missing something? That's why I buy SGC graded cards because I know there's a good chance that it was graded conservatively and the card may be nicer than it's PSA counterpart.

Then again, that's from a buyer's perspective. If I was a seller and wanted to get more bang for my buck, I would probably go with PSA because I know they're not going to grade as careful and the card will sell for more.

[teetwoohsix]

About missing paper loss.......how does a "grader" miss paper loss?!? I mean, does he look at the edges for 3 seconds and throw a grade on it? PAPER LOSS. Right there in his face. What the? I haven't seen that happen with SGC-maybe it has happened, but I haven't seen it.

Sincerely, Clayton

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I agree with Bobby on this one too. His card looks better than an 84. I also agree that I have purchased many undergraded cards in SGC holders and yes, maybe it means SGC is being too carefull (conservative) with grades.

However, if you are a buyer, isn't that a good thing (wouldn't you want a better looking card for a better price) or am I missing something? That's why I buy SGC graded cards because I know there's a good chance that it was graded conservatively and the card may be nicer than it's PSA counterpart.

Then again, that's from a buyer's perspective. If I was a seller and wanted to get more bang for my buck, I would probably go with PSA because I know they're not going to grade as careful and the card will sell for more.

Sure, if your a buyer, but buyers are not the ones subbing cards. TPGs are for sellers trying to get max value for their cards. That's not going to happen with SGC. If I had to guess, they grade conservatively to keep buyers of cards from demanding they make good on their guarantee.

Why any sellers use their service is beyond me. To those who say the black make their card pop, hold a raw one in your hand and see how it pops then.

I've busted many SGC cards out and from experience, that black insert does more damage then good. I know all of you that have sgc cards have seen the card slip behind the insert. That insert is fairly sharp with sometimes somewhat jagged edges.

Oh and BTW, is that the Plank I sold you? I know the condition flaw it has but the grade is a bummer.

[CMIZ5290]

Matt- you are exactly right about the inserts with sgc holders. I have a few high end t206s (84's and higher) that have indentions (small lifts of the paper) on the back of the card, top and bottom, and the length of the indention is exactly the same width as the insert. It make me sick to my stomach because the cards are so extremely sharp other than that. What the hell am i suppose to do now??

[Matthew H]

I had an Obak in an SGC slab that wouldn't stay out from behind the insert, no matter how many times I tapped the edges to center it. After closer inspection, I realized the insert was actually a tiny bit smaller then the card itself, that's why I couldn't get it to sit right in the holder.

[glynparson]

The cases also often pop open without frosting when done in a certain way. I know this is a problem with PSA as well.

[oldjudge]

Bobbie--that card could have been at least a 9 if someone removed that rotten sign. Does you girlfriend ask why you bought a case of pinup cards?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Oh and BTW, is that the Plank I sold you? I know the condition flaw it has but the grade is a bummer.

Yup, that's the Plank. A good example of what I was talking about. It has all the eye appeal of a VG/EX card, but a low technical grade. I could really care less about the number on the front. I just want to be sure it's original and unaltered.

I think it should have graded higher as I'm sure you did too. And I think if I cracked it out and sent it to PSA it would grade higher (2.5 or 3). That's not a knock on PSA by saying they overgrade, I really believe it's undergraded. However, if it were a PSA 2.5 or 3, it would have cost me a lot more money. Same card, more money. Makes no sense. I just feel that by buying SGC graded cards I get a much better card (eye appeal) that is more conservatively graded for the money (and the Plank is a perfect example).

If I ever decide to sell it, I may crack it out and send it to PSA to see if I can get a higher grade. I don't think I would have anything to lose. But as for now I plan to keep it and don't really care about the holder that it resides in, just that it's the real deal as I mentioned.

Anyway, again that is from a buyers perspective. If I were a seller, I would probably go with PSA.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yup, that's the Plank. A good example of what I was talking about. It has all the eye appeal of a VG/EX card, but a low technical grade. I could really care less about the number on the front. I just want to be sure it's original and unaltered.

I think it should have graded higher as I'm sure you did too. And I think if I cracked it out and sent it to PSA it would grade higher (2.5 or 3). That's not a knock on PSA by saying they overgrade, I really believe it's undergraded. However, if it were a PSA 2.5 or 3, it would have cost me a lot more money. Same card, more money. Makes no sense. I just feel that by buying SGC graded cards I get a much better card (eye appeal) that is more conservatively graded for the money (and the Plank is a perfect example).

If I ever decide to sell it, I may crack it out and send it to PSA to see if I can get a higher grade. I don't think I would have anything to lose. But as for now I plan to keep it and don't really care about the holder that it resides in, just that it's the real deal as I mentioned.

Anyway, again that is from a buyers perspective. If I were a seller, I would probably go with PSA.

FWIW I sold it to you for what I bought it for. Pretty good deal. People ignored the card and couldn't get past the holder.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

FWIW I sold it to you for what I bought it for. Pretty good deal. People ignored the card and couldn't get past the holder.

I think there are times when grading a card can actually decrease the value rather than increase the value? If you were to have sold the same card raw with an accurate description and clear scans, would it have sold for more money (as opposed to someone not being able to get past the techincal grade on the slab)? I think maybe so.