PSA vs SGC...the definitive Debate!!!

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I agree with Bobby on this one too. His card looks better than an 84. I also agree that I have purchased many undergraded cards in SGC holders and yes, maybe it means SGC is being too carefull (conservative) with grades.

However, if you are a buyer, isn't that a good thing (wouldn't you want a better looking card for a better price) or am I missing something? That's why I buy SGC graded cards because I know there's a good chance that it was graded conservatively and the card may be nicer than it's PSA counterpart.

Then again, that's from a buyer's perspective. If I was a seller and wanted to get more bang for my buck, I would probably go with PSA because I know they're not going to grade as careful and the card will sell for more.

Sure, if your a buyer, but buyers are not the ones subbing cards. TPGs are for sellers trying to get max value for their cards. That's not going to happen with SGC. If I had to guess, they grade conservatively to keep buyers of cards from demanding they make good on their guarantee.

Why any sellers use their service is beyond me. To those who say the black make their card pop, hold a raw one in your hand and see how it pops then.

I've busted many SGC cards out and from experience, that black insert does more damage then good. I know all of you that have sgc cards have seen the card slip behind the insert. That insert is fairly sharp with sometimes somewhat jagged edges.

Oh and BTW, is that the Plank I sold you? I know the condition flaw it has but the grade is a bummer.

[CMIZ5290]

Matt- you are exactly right about the inserts with sgc holders. I have a few high end t206s (84's and higher) that have indentions (small lifts of the paper) on the back of the card, top and bottom, and the length of the indention is exactly the same width as the insert. It make me sick to my stomach because the cards are so extremely sharp other than that. What the hell am i suppose to do now??

[Matthew H]

I had an Obak in an SGC slab that wouldn't stay out from behind the insert, no matter how many times I tapped the edges to center it. After closer inspection, I realized the insert was actually a tiny bit smaller then the card itself, that's why I couldn't get it to sit right in the holder.

[glynparson]

The cases also often pop open without frosting when done in a certain way. I know this is a problem with PSA as well.

[oldjudge]

Bobbie--that card could have been at least a 9 if someone removed that rotten sign. Does you girlfriend ask why you bought a case of pinup cards?

[Leon]

Originally Posted by oldjudge

Does you girlfriend ask why you bought a case of pinup cards?

They ARE his girlfriend . BTW, because of the cracking Bobby mentioned there is no doubt in my mind they are technically graded correctly. Just because a card is in a 3-4 holder doesn't mean it will sell for an average 3-4 price. If I have a high-end-for-the-grade card I usually ask more than an average-for-the-grade card. It happens frequently with SGC cards as they do grade conservatively. As I just said in the M116 thread, I paid a premium for the SGC 40 Matty but it should go for more than a 4 because of the way it looks.




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[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Oh and BTW, is that the Plank I sold you? I know the condition flaw it has but the grade is a bummer.

Yup, that's the Plank. A good example of what I was talking about. It has all the eye appeal of a VG/EX card, but a low technical grade. I could really care less about the number on the front. I just want to be sure it's original and unaltered.

I think it should have graded higher as I'm sure you did too. And I think if I cracked it out and sent it to PSA it would grade higher (2.5 or 3). That's not a knock on PSA by saying they overgrade, I really believe it's undergraded. However, if it were a PSA 2.5 or 3, it would have cost me a lot more money. Same card, more money. Makes no sense. I just feel that by buying SGC graded cards I get a much better card (eye appeal) that is more conservatively graded for the money (and the Plank is a perfect example).

If I ever decide to sell it, I may crack it out and send it to PSA to see if I can get a higher grade. I don't think I would have anything to lose. But as for now I plan to keep it and don't really care about the holder that it resides in, just that it's the real deal as I mentioned.

Anyway, again that is from a buyers perspective. If I were a seller, I would probably go with PSA.

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Yup, that's the Plank. A good example of what I was talking about. It has all the eye appeal of a VG/EX card, but a low technical grade. I could really care less about the number on the front. I just want to be sure it's original and unaltered.

I think it should have graded higher as I'm sure you did too. And I think if I cracked it out and sent it to PSA it would grade higher (2.5 or 3). That's not a knock on PSA by saying they overgrade, I really believe it's undergraded. However, if it were a PSA 2.5 or 3, it would have cost me a lot more money. Same card, more money. Makes no sense. I just feel that by buying SGC graded cards I get a much better card (eye appeal) that is more conservatively graded for the money (and the Plank is a perfect example).

If I ever decide to sell it, I may crack it out and send it to PSA to see if I can get a higher grade. I don't think I would have anything to lose. But as for now I plan to keep it and don't really care about the holder that it resides in, just that it's the real deal as I mentioned.

Anyway, again that is from a buyers perspective. If I were a seller, I would probably go with PSA.

FWIW I sold it to you for what I bought it for. Pretty good deal. People ignored the card and couldn't get past the holder.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

FWIW I sold it to you for what I bought it for. Pretty good deal. People ignored the card and couldn't get past the holder.

I think there are times when grading a card can actually decrease the value rather than increase the value? If you were to have sold the same card raw with an accurate description and clear scans, would it have sold for more money (as opposed to someone not being able to get past the techincal grade on the slab)? I think maybe so.

[cobblove]

I will not buy a SGC card. I dont trust the case and I dont like OC cards.

[T206Collector]

There's a lot of "people grade cards and people make mistakes" comments in this thread. Sounds like PSA-apologists to me.

I am asking for just one -- one -- SGC graded card at 60 or higher with a visible crease.

Just

One

You can say SGC must make the same proportion of mistakes as PSA, but can you produce a single example of an SGC 60+ with a visible crease?

Try buying PSA 5s on the blind and see how long it takes you to find one. I just got this one a couple of weeks ago. Top left corner crease. Hard to see in a scan, but really easy to see in person. Probably an SGC 40. Oh well.

[glynparson]

like I said, but I can assure you they bought back high grade cards because of creases that were missed or pressed out and returned. PSA does allow for a wrinkle on a card up to a 6 so because there are different standards you can't really scream about it thats just a fact, like sgc allows for weaker corners on an average 5. Plus Paul have you ever seen anything negative from SGC you may be the biggest fanboy on here and if you are calling me a psa apologist also a fool. I have ripped PSA unmercifully at times but Im just sick of many on here criticizing PSA for things that SGC also does than applauding SGC.

[chaddurbin]

ignored this thread 'til now, cuz it's stupid, not sure if pete was serious starting this thread but...

i did have an sgc60 t206 young years back with the much worse corner crease than the carrigan. it bothered me so much because the card was jarred during shipping and shifted out of the black insert, so i wasn't sure if the shipping caused further damage. looking back at the auction scan i could see the wrinkling was there b4 being shipped. up until that point i also thought sgc don't allow crease/wrinkling in EX cards either.

Originally Posted by T206Collector

There's a lot of "people grade cards and people make mistakes" comments in this thread. Sounds like PSA-apologists to me.

I am asking for just one -- one -- SGC graded card at 60 or higher with a visible crease.

Just

One

You can say SGC must make the same proportion of mistakes as PSA, but can you produce a single example of an SGC 60+ with a visible crease?