OT: Colorado shooting

Peter_Spaeth · #1 07-23-2012, 08:17 PM

The notion of relying on psychiatrists and judges to make correct decisions about people's medication status is frightening. And it isn't just schizophrenia. Do we force depressed people to take anti-depressants? Do we keep forcing kids to take ritalin and the like over their parents' objections? Where does Big Brother's reach stop?

Runscott · #2 07-23-2012, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

The notion of relying on psychiatrists and judges to make correct decisions about people's medication status is frightening. And it isn't just schizophrenia. Do we force depressed people to take anti-depressants? Do we keep forcing kids to take ritalin and the like over their parents' objections? Where does Big Brother's reach stop?

You are right. But given the HIPPA laws, the only person who is allowed to make the decision is the mentally ill person - the person who is not in their right mind and who is the least capable of making the decision.

Leon · #3 07-23-2012, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

You are right. But given the HIPPA laws, the only person who is allowed to make the decision is the mentally ill person - the person who is not in their right mind and who is the least capable of making the decision.

I have a cousin in law who passed away recently and he was a full blown schizophrenic. When anyone was around him, on his meds or not, they knew he was a bit off. I am sure there are different degrees of it but I wouldn't buy this shooter having it. If someone has schizophrenia, at least in my experiences, you know it. This guy was functioning in society fine and was not on medication. Sorry, in this case I am just not buying it (nor has that been a defense yet). I also think his demeanor in court today was a pre-plan for the start of an insanity plea. As I said on the phone yesterday, we really have to look at each individual situation. If I were the judge I would probably, if there were a way, let the victim's families decide his fate. (pipe dream, I know)

Runscott · #4 07-23-2012, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I have a cousin in law who passed away recently and he was a full blown schizophrenic. When anyone was around him, on his meds or not, they know he was a bit off. I am sure there are different degrees of it but I wouldn't buy this shooter having it. If someone has schizophrenia, at least in my experiences, you know it. This guy was functioning in society fine and was not on medication. Sorry, in this case I am just not buying it (nor has that been a defense yet). I also think his demeanor in court today was a pre-plan for the start of an insanity plea. As I said on the phone yesterday, we really have to look at each individual situation. If I were the judge I would probably, if there were a way, let the victim's families decide his fate. (pipe dream, I know)

I'll reserve an execution sentence until I know more facts, but I very much appreciate our talk the other day and I tend to agree that he probably isn't mentally ill, for the same reason you gave.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 07-23-2012, 09:04 PM

Legal systems have always struggled with the definition of insanity as a defense. Does it mean the inability to tell right from wrong? Or does it mean the inability to control one's actions? Or something else? I think for most people, including myself, it's hard to believe someone who for months carefully plans a crime is not "sane" by any definition. On the other hand, if he truly believed he was The Joker, well, I don't know.

Runscott · #6 07-23-2012, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Legal systems have always struggled with the definition of insanity as a defense. Does it mean the inability to tell right from wrong? Or does it mean the inability to control one's actions? Or something else? I think for most people, including myself, it's hard to believe someone who for months carefully plans a crime is not "sane" by any definition. On the other hand, if he truly believed he was The Joker, well, I don't know.

I think most people struggle with the term 'insane', as well. To me, anyone who commits the premeditated murder of people he doesn't even know, must be 'insane' on some level. Tough call (or should be).

Interesting that you brought up "the inability to control one's actions". Antipsychotics can be used to bring a manic patient down to a state where they can fake sanity well enough to get through a competency evaluation so that they can testify in their own behalf. Despite this, they are still mentally ill, and once off their meds are likely to re-enter their psychotic state.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 07-23-2012, 09:19 PM

Scott, to me premeditation and planning is more consistent with being evil (knowing right from wrong but choosing to do wrong) than insane. But of course it's a case by case inquiry, in an imperfect world, where ultimately people make that judgment based on conflicting testimony of paid psychiatrists, and of course their common sense.

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