Wagner??

[bobbvc]

The batter in this photo has been identified as both Wagner and Owen Wilson at different times. I tend to think it more likely to be Wilson, who had a similar nose to Wagner but was also listed at 6' 2", 185 pounds. Bresnahan was 5' 9" 200 lbs, similar to Wagner's 5' 10 1/2" and probably 200-210 lbs. by 1908. Batter looks quite a bit taller than the catcher in this photo (tough to tell because they are both slightly bent over). I do have a photo of Wagner batting left in a pre game photo, but it won't load at this time. Not positive, but I'm giving 3-1 odds it not being Wagner.

[jimhopkins82]

Hey, is this the same picture? http://www.retrosnapshots.com/sports...-york-5x7.html

[Runscott]

This is the only comparable 'left side' photo of Wagner I could find, and it resembles Ben's picture a lot:



Also, from a common-sense perspective, it's unlikely a photographer would have set up on this side for a right-handed hitter, especially Wagner - taking a photograph involved more preparation back then, so the photographer would have wanted to be on the correct side. He was probably expecting Wagner to be batting right-handed and got surprised. Given the 'wrong side' set-up, to me that builds a better case for it being Wagner.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Runscott

This is the only comparable 'left side' photo of Wagner I could find, and it resembles Ben's picture a lot:



Also, from a common-sense perspective, it's unlikely a photographer would have set up on this side for a right-handed hitter, especially Wagner - taking a photograph involved more preparation back then, so the photographer would have wanted to be on the correct side. He was probably expecting Wagner to be batting right-handed and got surprised. Given the 'wrong side' set-up, to me that builds a better case for it being Wagner.

Thanks Scott! This is great feedback!! There are a lot of no votes without reasons. I have seen nothing to dispute sabr's findings thus far.

[bobbvc]

Can you scan the back of the photo? Looks like they mention Bresnahan but not Wagner, at least from the scan available on the Ebay listing. Looks like "Sul(?) at bat" below the Culver sticker.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by bobbvc

Can you scan the back of the photo? Looks like they mention Bresnahan but not Wagner, at least from the scan available on the Ebay listing. Looks like "Sul(?) at bat" below the Culver sticker.

Same photo.. The person writing on photo might not have a clue after it was developed. The library of congress doesn't mention anyone either. I have no idea what that word is.. Not sure if the person Who inscribed it did either.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Runscott

I do not believe the person in the original photo is Wagner. The batter in question has a larger, more egg shaped head. Look at the distance from his ears to the back of his head... Much more than the picture of Wagner above.

[Shoeless Moe]

I vote for Wagner....

looks like a terrible stance, so makes sense it's someone who turned around....any of u play ball and flip to the other side.....that pretty much is your stance.

Although in the old days they had some pretty bad stances.....so....

[Shoeless Moe]

and it looks like the ump & catcher are smirking, maybe laughing cuz Wagner said we are getting swept and I have done nothing from the right side today.

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

and it looks like the ump & catcher are smirking, maybe laughing cuz Wagner said we are getting swept and I have done nothing from the right side today.

I can see the catcher kind of smirking, but the ump looks like he's shouting something.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

I do not believe the person in the original photo is Wagner. The batter in question has a larger, more egg shaped head. Look at the distance from his ears to the back of his head... Much more than the picture of Wagner above.

The picture of the head is facing away in the original vs towards the camera in this.. Completely diff angle when viewing the head and ear.

[Mr. Zipper]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

The picture of the head is facing away in the original vs towards the camera in this.. Completely diff angle when viewing the head and ear.

Yes, I took that into account. The known Wagner is a straight side shot. The unknown is rotated slightly. Not nearly enough to account for difference in head shape, IMO. Look at the difference in how the hat fits the back of his head.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

I do not believe the person in the original photo is Wagner. The batter in question has a larger, more egg shaped head. Look at the distance from his ears to the back of his head... Much more than the picture of Wagner above.... The unknown is rotated slightly. Not nearly enough to account for difference in head shape, IMO.....

No - the difference in angle is substantial. It would be very difficult even for a forensic expert meaningfully compare the ear-to-back-of-head distances in those two photos.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by bobbvc

The batter in this photo has been identified as both Wagner and Owen Wilson at different times.

Who identified it as Wilson? Where is it published?

[yanks12025]

Why's he look smaller compared to other Wagner photos from 1908?

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

Why's he look smaller compared to other Wagner photos from 1908?

What photos are you referring to?

[bobbvc]

Originally Posted by Forever Young

Who identified it as Wilson? Where is it published?

There are 4 books on Wagner, 3 of which are biographies. Also Lieb's Pittsburgh Pirates, and a couple SABR Pubs. Not sure where I read it, but in one of those, probably 10 or more years ago. I asked one of those authors to chime in with his opinion, as he posts on this board from time to time.

[deebro041]

I was going to use this photo for my avatar, great photo! Wish i had seen it come up for auction.

[mybestbretts]

What a great photo. Love it! Also love the mystery surounding it, hope
it turns out to be the real thing.

[Shoeless Moe]

Originally Posted by bobbvc

The batter in this photo has been identified as both Wagner and Owen Wilson at different times. I tend to think it more likely to be Wilson, who had a similar nose to Wagner but was also listed at 6' 2", 185 pounds. Bresnahan was 5' 9" 200 lbs, similar to Wagner's 5' 10 1/2" and probably 200-210 lbs. by 1908. Batter looks quite a bit taller than the catcher in this photo (tough to tell because they are both slightly bent over). I do have a photo of Wagner batting left in a pre game photo, but it won't load at this time. Not positive, but I'm giving 3-1 odds it not being Wagner.

Own Wilson was in Wedding Crashers, I don't think that looks like him.....however....

I don't see a date on here, how did u get that?

Does anyone have pix of the Pirates sox from that season, the stripes on it could confirm if it's a Pitt player or not.

That could read "Gill at bat"....although Gill was a righty as well.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

Own Wilson was in Wedding Crashers, I don't think that looks like him.....however....

I don't see a date on here, how did u get that?

Does anyone have pix of the Pirates sox from that season, the stripes on it could confirm if it's a Pitt player or not.

The date has been established/ stamped on original photo which also corresponds to sabr and loc.

[iwantitiwinit]

In my opinion it is clearly not Wagner, calves are too thin.

[thekingofclout]

Along the same lines as comparing that both Thomas and the Batter wear their belt buckles on their right side. Take note in the way that Thomas wears his pants compared to the Batter. Thomas wears his much longer than the Batter does. We're all creatures of habit, and none more so than Ballplayers. I'd find it unlikely that a player would wear his pants long one day and short another. Once you feel comfortable with a certain length, I really don't think you'd switch to wearing them the opposite length.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

[bmarlowe1]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

Along the same lines as comparing that both Thomas and the Batter wear their belt buckles on their right side. Take note in the way that Thomas wears his pants compared to the Batter. Thomas wears his much longer than the Batter does. We're all creatures of habit, and none more so than Ballplayers. I'd find it unlikely that a player would wear his pants long one day and short another. Once you feel comfortable with a certain length, I really don't think you'd switch to wearing them the opposite length.

Just my opinion, for what it's worth.

I considered the buckle supportive of the ear comparison which is pretty strong on it's own, IMO. In any case, below left to right we have Thomas in 1900, 1902, and the 1905 photo I used where his pants are well below his knee.

I don't know how much choice these guys had with respect to pants length. In 1900, it seems his pants were not as long, though he is seated on the ground, so maybe it's not so easy to tell. In the 1902 Spalding Guide photo, which I think I scaled pretty conservatively with respect to the 1905 photo, his pants are clearly shorter (if that's really him).

[Shoeless Moe]

somebody overpaid in that ebay auction.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=221057149168


did the winner chime in? are they a net54-er?

[Jlighter]

Originally Posted by Shoeless Moe

somebody overpaid in that ebay auction.


http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=221057149168


did the winner chime in? are they a net54-er?

Look at Forever Youngs post on the first page.

[T206Collector]

There.... now he's batting right-handed. Everyone's a winner!!