former ebay head Gonzalez purported said psa and jsa suck according to post.

[shelly]

Richard, then you agree that life without tpa's would be just fine. I would also thing that people would save a great deal of money.
I will even go out on a limb and say that before all this is over many of the people on here might find that fact to be true.
As far as the kid from Prince Edward Island what else do you have to do there but watch tv and fish and have a small Ebay store.

[danc]

Richard, I don't use TPA's of any sorts as you know and have managed just fine, as you have as well.

But people who need assistance in a complicated collecting genre often need help and this is their safety net because not everyone is specifically educated like yourself or "Boom Boom" Travis. The hobby is so used to using someone to determine whether something is legitimate or not, a new world without TPA's may open up even more avenue's for fraud and unsure collectors will lose interest (especially if two are discredited).

Rich, your clientele deal with you because they don't need to go to a TPA, but how about you leave your penthouse and go to a show at least once every ten years and witness what I witness? :-)

Shelly, wtf...

DanC

[shelly]

So what you are saying is no matter what is right or wrong people need to think that it is authentic?
I am not fighting with you I agree with you. What bothers me is that is truly a shame. I know from many years of knowledge that is what made this hobby a playground for forgers.

WTF

h to chi.

[tinkereversandme]

As a someewhat new collector who hasn't spent over $100 for an autograph I entrust and trust TPAs because while people on this board say the are experts they have the time and talent to know what I can't know working two jobs. I ask a few people who help me to get a little more insurance on my purchase (dan has helped me a lot, thanks) and therefore a TPA is something the hobby needs for the ten's of thousands like me that are not experts but want to enjoy a great hobby. Just saying. I also enjoy this forum a great deal and have learned quite a bit.

Regards,

Larry

[markf31]

Maybe it’s just me, but it seems something has been missed this entire thread about the original topic and the linked story. See if you can follow my logic:

The story talks about John Gonzales, the former head of Ebay’s fraud division.
It also says he, John Gonzales, dealt DIRECTLY with the handful of authenticators chosen by Ebay.
Now logically, who at Ebay would make that decision to only work with certain Authenticators?
Wouldn’t you think, that it would be Ebays FRAUD division who decided to deal with only a handful of authenticators?
Wouldn’t it be the FRAUD division’s decision who Ebay stood behind?
And who was the HEAD of this division….oh, it was John Gonzales.
If John Gonzales had such a big problem with TPAs….being the head of the FRAUD division, wouldn’t he have the power to do something about it???
I mean he is the head of the department that makes these determinations you would think.

The article goes on to say
“Those in the field of autographs would be shocked to know how many good dealers were removed from eBay for selling genuine autographs deemed fake by PSA/DNA and JSA.”

So what department do you think removed these “good dealers”
Don’t you think that if there was even a question about a dealers credentials, if the dealer was suspected of hawking forged autographs, that it would be the FRAUD division to make the decision to remove them from Ebay?
And again, who was the HEAD of the FRAUD division?
Oh, that’s right it was John Gonzales.
If John Gonzales had such a big problem with Ebay removing reputable dealers, a decision that would have come from the FRAUD division, that John Gonzales being the head of this department, he had the power to step in and take control??
Those “good dealers” were removed ON HIS WATCH!!!

The article continues:
“It has been a conspiracy going on for years, if an expert is asked to join one of the group and they refuse, their material would later be failed by eBay’s authenticators and the sellers would be banned from eBay.”
And again, what department was in charge of banning sellers because they were hawking suspect autographs and authentications?
The Fraud division

Does anyone else see the glaring contradictions in this article?
The logic works for me.
That Ebay’s fraud division would be in charge of removing crooked dealers and forgers and of determining those authenticators that are trustworthy and reputable. If John Gonzales was in charge of this division, and as the article states, he was the head of Ebay’s fraud division for a “very long time” …don’t you think he had the power to take steps to fix these problems he supposedly has/had?

John Gonzales was the head of Ebay’s fraud division for a very long time, if ANYONE had the power to change the culture of autograph authentication on Ebay, it would have been John Gonzales.

[RichardSimon]

I don't know if John made that purported statement or not but four points should be made clear.

1-To the best of my knowledge PSA and JSA were on the ebay approved authenticator list before John took over the fraud department. To the best of my knowledge John had nothing to do with PSA or JSA getting on that list.
If someone knows for sure that is not the case then please correct me. I don't know the exact time frame involved here but I believe that I am correct. But feel free to correct me if you have specific knowledge that I am wrong.

2-John helped form a team of knowledgeable hobby people who were vetted by him and joined the ebay reporting team (at no pay, this was strictly a voluntary thing). The group spent countless hours combing ebay for bogus items, autographs, cards and memorabilia. There were some very, very knowledgeable people in this group. Many bogus items were removed by the team. It got to a point where one extremely knowledgeable person joined the team and even items with PSA and JSA certs were removed from ebay. (remember the $80,000 Walter Johnson ball?).

3-John is still at ebay but in a totally different end of their business. He did not leave ebay.
His surprising move out of the fraud department, I believe, was due to his frustration about the autograph business on ebay.

4-This is speculation on my part but John while he was head of the fraud department did have people that he reported to. He did not have 100% freedom to do what he wanted to do.

[JimStinson]

Whatever John G. had to say in private (Good or Bad) about PSA, JSA, AA, AAA, AARP or the NAACP was his business.

As for E-Bay before and after , I'll tell you an experience I recently had and I'll leave it up to those that are smarter than I am to figure it out because it baffles me.

FIRST let me say I have been an active seller on E-Bay for almost 9 years and in those 9 years have had over 15,000 transactions and a feedback score of 100%. I've been an autograph dealer for over 30 years.

I have NEVER , NOT one time EVER had E-Bay take down an autograph because of questions regarding its authenticity. Two weeks ago I sold a $450.00 autograph that was a no-brainer signature on an album page which came out of an IN-PERSON autograph book that had sold at auction a few years ago and HAD A COA from a TPA but I did not mention it in the item description.

The buyer paid for the item I shipped it and ONE WEEK LATER E-Bay sent me an e-mail saying they had taken the item down because of questions regarding its authenticity and that I was NOT to relist it

The buyer then recieved an e-mail from e-bay telling him he did not have to follow through on the transaction, The buyer and I exchanged e-mails , he lives in another country and had not recieved it yet but he assured me that based on the image he had seen on e-bay he was certain it was genuine and I assured him that if he wanted to that at any time he could return it for a refund. I then sent him a copy of the COA from the TPA which happens to be one of E-Bays MOST trusted authentication companies.

48 hours later the buyer files a complaint with pay pal that the autograph he recieved in the mail is a PHOTOCOPY and wants a refund which he gets. I can say THIS for sure the autograph I sold and shipped was 100% and without question NOT a photo copy. But of course how would I ever prove that to pay pal especially in light of the fact that E-Bay has already told the buyer ONE WEEK after he bought it that the autograph had "issues" ?

The whole thing starts to look like a scene out of "The Gang That couldn;t shoot straight" and leaves me to wonder , Who the heck is watching the store ????

[Big Dave]

Can you post the buyer's eBay user name?

Want to put him/her on my block bidder list.

[isaac2004]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

Whatever John G. had to say in private (Good or Bad) about PSA, JSA, AA, AAA, AARP or the NAACP was his business.

As for E-Bay before and after , I'll tell you an experience I recently had and I'll leave it up to those that are smarter than I am to figure it out because it baffles me.

FIRST let me say I have been an active seller on E-Bay for almost 9 years and in those 9 years have had over 15,000 transactions and a feedback score of 100%. I've been an autograph dealer for over 30 years.

I have NEVER , NOT one time EVER had E-Bay take down an autograph because of questions regarding its authenticity. Two weeks ago I sold a $450.00 autograph that was a no-brainer signature on an album page which came out of an IN-PERSON autograph book that had sold at auction a few years ago and HAD A COA from a TPA but I did not mention it in the item description.

The buyer paid for the item I shipped it and ONE WEEK LATER E-Bay sent me an e-mail saying they had taken the item down because of questions regarding its authenticity and that I was NOT to relist it

The buyer then recieved an e-mail from e-bay telling him he did not have to follow through on the transaction, The buyer and I exchanged e-mails , he lives in another country and had not recieved it yet but he assured me that based on the image he had seen on e-bay he was certain it was genuine and I assured him that if he wanted to that at any time he could return it for a refund. I then sent him a copy of the COA from the TPA which happens to be one of E-Bays MOST trusted authentication companies.

48 hours later the buyer files a complaint with pay pal that the autograph he recieved in the mail is a PHOTOCOPY and wants a refund which he gets. I can say THIS for sure the autograph I sold and shipped was 100% and without question NOT a photo copy. But of course how would I ever prove that to pay pal especially in light of the fact that E-Bay has already told the buyer ONE WEEK after he bought it that the autograph had "issues" ?

The whole thing starts to look like a scene out of "The Gang That couldn;t shoot straight" and leaves me to wonder , Who the heck is watching the store ????

But her returned the item correct? Just checking, because I have been nearly burned with returns from other countries (had to be on the phone with paypal multiple times)

[travrosty]

we had listed a signed 8 x 10 from a private signing session we did and included a photo of the guy signing the photos as proof, and ebay took it down over "authenticity issues" and told us not to relist it.

it was a case of sour grapes , someone reporting stuff because they dont like the person and it had nothing to do with authenticity. thats why gonzalez was having a headache. some of the guys reporting bad stuff to him were just reporting it for spite. there are plenty of psa and jsa items still up that will never get taken down even though they are bad. some that get taken down are good, and who is watching the watchers? no one is watching the watchers, they will do what they want and make it hell for someone if they want.