This is the problem with grading...

HRBAKER · #1 08-19-2012, 07:21 PM

Peter,
Functionally what you say is right. My question would be why not just start the bidding at the lowest acceptable amount or install a reserve? My assumption is that the somewhere someone has determined that starting at a lower opener and creating the perception of an absolute/real auction (illusory or not) would result in more action and a higher result. If you have a "shill" then this is not what you end up with, an absolute auction that is.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 08-19-2012, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HRBAKER

Peter,
Functionally what you say is right. My question would be why not just start the bidding at the lowest acceptable amount or install a reserve? My assumption is that the somewhere someone has determined that starting at a lower opener and creating the perception of an absolute/real auction (illusory or not) would result in more action and a higher result. If you have a "shill" then this is not what you end up with, an absolute auction that is.

Well I agree in my hypothetical it's not really an absolute auction, but I'm not sure why I should care, either way, the card is only available over a certain price, and so be it.

brob28 · #3 08-19-2012, 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Well I agree in my hypothetical it's not really an absolute auction, but I'm not sure why I should care, either way, the card is only available over a certain price, and so be it.

Peter, it's been a long thread (I have read completely) so forgive me if I'm repeating a previous question. Say you are interested in a card and you decide you are willing to pay up to $5,000 for it. In the bidding for the card all bidders drop out at $3,500. All except the owner who shill bids you up to $5,000. After the auction you learn that the seller has shilled you up another $1,500 - this really would not bother you at all? You would not call the seller to discuss the shill bids?

What I'm really getting at here is the price for any item is what the market will bear. By shill bidding the seller created an artificially strong market for the item, effectively forcing you to overpay the market cost of the item.

That would definately bother me.

vintagetoppsguy · #4 08-19-2012, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brob28

What I'm really getting at here is the price for any item is what the market will bear. By shill bidding the seller created an artificially strong market for the item, effectively forcing you to overpay the market cost of the item.

Yes!

Peter_Spaeth · #5 08-19-2012, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brob28

Peter, it's been a long thread (I have read completely) so forgive me if I'm repeating a previous question. Say you are interested in a card and you decide you are willing to pay up to $5,000 for it. In the bidding for the card all bidders drop out at $3,500. All except the owner who shill bids you up to $5,000. After the auction you learn that the seller has shilled you up another $1,500 - this really would not bother you at all? You would not call the seller to discuss the shill bids?

What I'm really getting at here is the price for any item is what the market will bear. By shill bidding the seller created an artificially strong market for the item, effectively forcing you to overpay the market cost of the item.

That would definately bother me.

Your example seems different from mine where the seller has made a predetermination that he will only sell for $5000, and so in effect places a hidden reserve at that level through a shill. If someone is just encouraged by my $3500 bid to see if I will go higher, that seems different, but I haven't completely thought it through, I may be on a slippery slope myself perhaps.

brob28 · #6 08-19-2012, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Your example seems different from mine where the seller has made a predetermination that he will only sell for $5000, and so in effect places a hidden reserve at that level through a shill. If someone is just encouraged by my $3500 bid to see if I will go higher, that seems different, but I haven't completely thought it through, I may be on a slippery slope myself perhaps.

Fair enough, it certainly can get slippery.

Good night, gentlemen.

botn · #7 08-19-2012, 09:17 PM

When selling we want as much as we can get for something and when buying we want to pay the least. Most here sell very little and are accumulators/collectors. I am active in both aspects of the hobby. In Peter's scenario, where a consignor has a level in mind at which they will let something go and they place a protective bid at that level, I really do not have an issue with it. I can bid and win it or not. I would like to win it for less but obviously this particular card is not available for less, at this time. I really do not care who my competition is when buying or bidding. I know what I can afford to spend and what something is worth to me and that is what determines my bids on ebay or in any other format.

Clutch-Hitter · #8 08-19-2012, 09:27 PM

So what happens when you accidentally win your own auction? I'm asking because shilling my own has never occurred to me. When I list, there's a reserve or buy it now option for that.

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