PAWN STARS Shoeless Joe Jackson signed book...

[thekingofclout]

Let me ask you this, Travis. When people here post a scan of an Ali/Joe Louis/Sonny Liston autograph, and you reply that "it's bad." Do you spend 15-30 minutes studying the autograph on the screen? If not, how can you come to the conclusion that the signature is bad? According to you, the TPA's must spend a good amount of time comparing known examples before a valid opinion can be reached. Can you see the discrepancy here, Travis?

[brownscollector78]

I've been signing my own name all my life and I see differences in my own signature quite often that would probably lead these authenticating services to deem it fake.

The moral of the story is...unless you're filthy rich and willing to lose your money on fakes...stay away from autographs. Theres pretty much no way to know if a signature is real or fake unless you're present at the signing.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by brownscollector78

I've been signing my own name all my life and I see differences in my own signature quite often that would probably lead these authenticating services to deem it fake.

The moral of the story is...unless you're filthy rich and willing to lose your money on fakes...stay away from autographs. Theres pretty much no way to know if a signature is real or fake unless you're present at the signing.

even if you're filthy rich, stay away....get an new hobby.

[alexautographs]

Well, unless you're around to see Lincoln, Ruth or Galileo sign, better stick to signatures of John Travolta and Britney Spears...Meantime, if you like autographs and want authentic material, you still have a choice: buy a "slabbed" piece (when I hear "slabbed", I think of a morgue), or get an item from an expert who specializes in the field or individual you want to collect, and has been around long enough to know what he's doing.

A closer look at PSA/JSA timetables: ages ago, I did the same analysis as Travis. One autograph every two minutes just isn't possible, and I know - I've sold 45,000 pieces. Yes, the ones that are obviously bad, you can see right away, but what about the ones that REALLY need research, where you have to dig and dig and dig to find exemplars? Sometimes it takes me an hour or more, plus contacting others in the field, to find examples of a signature. Then, their letters mention slant, pressure, alignments, etc. so that means ethically they have to examine every one of those factors as well - not pull them out of their hat. Finally, they have to print out their letter, sign it, gather up the item and letter, and send it off to packing. In two minutes.

One thing Travis forgot - where do they get the time to offer their "Quick Opinion" service? They must get tons of requests, and if they're going to do it well, they have to spend at least a minute apiece just opening the email, looking at it, and responding.

Something stinks.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

Let me ask you this, Travis. When people here post a scan of an Ali/Joe Louis/Sonny Liston autograph, and you reply that "it's bad." Do you spend 15-30 minutes studying the autograph on the screen? If not, how can you come to the conclusion that the signature is bad? According to you, the TPA's must spend a good amount of time comparing known examples before a valid opinion can be reached. Can you see the discrepancy here, Travis?

I can't answer for Travis nor would he want me too, but when you "know a signature is bad" & your an "expert" on that particular signer, you can just tell it's bad in seconds.

When it's real, it takes a bit more going over. So when I see a Mantle, I can usually tell if it's fake in 1 second. If it it appears real on the internet, it still really hasn't "passed" anything, only a formation "thumbs up". Technically, one would need to handle & examine the item carefully and actually should need to know what they're looking for, which I certainly don't.

Whenever corporate america is involved, you will get short cuts to making as much money as humanly possible at the moment, not giving a rats ass for the future. PSA & JSA are a conglomerates in this industry with obvious warts. I do appreciate JSA & PSA not passing EVERYTHING they see; however, They are getting too big and way too SMUG for their own good. This not answering questions crap, not owning up to their mistakes by recalling a thing, and "their word is gospel" will be the end of them. I can't wait for the day they crumble.....and with this attitude of theirs, that they can do no wrong, they will get theirs. Think GM in the 80's. (how's that for an analogy Travis) If not for the bail out of GM, I would have got my wish and watched them go out of business. No way is the govt going to bail out PSA or JSA

[sago]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

Let me ask you this, Travis. When people here post a scan of an Ali/Joe Louis/Sonny Liston autograph, and you reply that "it's bad." Do you spend 15-30 minutes studying the autograph on the screen? If not, how can you come to the conclusion that the signature is bad? According to you, the TPA's must spend a good amount of time comparing known examples before a valid opinion can be reached. Can you see the discrepancy here, Travis?

I cannot speak for Travis, but there does not seem to be a discrepancy here. You are choosing 3 of the most common or commonly forged signatures for him to answer to.

If it is bad it is easier to tell than if it is good. There is a range for everything. Mantle autographs that are obviously bad are easy to detect from a scan. Earlier signatures may take longer. If the scan does not pick up all the nuances in his signature clearly, it may also take longer to authenticate.

Based on Travis' expertise, I do not think anyone would question his opinion on an obviously bad Sonny Liston or Joe Louis. I would think he would hesitate to declare a little known heavyweight, or an obscure signature to be good/bad just from a scan.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

Let me ask you this, Travis. When people here post a scan of an Ali/Joe Louis/Sonny Liston autograph, and you reply that "it's bad." Do you spend 15-30 minutes studying the autograph on the screen? If not, how can you come to the conclusion that the signature is bad? According to you, the TPA's must spend a good amount of time comparing known examples before a valid opinion can be reached. Can you see the discrepancy here, Travis?

actually i do spend quite a bit of time with opinions i give on most boxing autograph unless it is very, very obviously bad, childlike signature. But the ones that are questionable or even the ones that look obviously good, and that is a majority of the ones that get submitted to these companies, i spend quite a bit of time or i will not make an opinion at all. The tpa's cannot afford to spend that time because they have subscribed to a system where they have scant little time on each autograph, so they cut corners in my opinion. that have a business model that maximizes their profits, but i think it does not translate into giving the customer what they deserve, which is time to do a proper authentication.

thank you for your question.

[RichardSimon]

I will repeat something I have said in another thread. When I was on the original PSA team, with Jim Stinson btw (those were some fun times after working hours), the entire team asked to stay over for a second day to properly complete the work we had. We were told no and that we should rush through the work.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I will repeat something I have said in another thread. When I was on the original PSA team, with Jim Stinson btw (those were some fun times after working hours), the entire team asked to stay over for a second day to properly complete the work we had. We were told no and that we should rush through the work.

The more things change, the more they stay the same. If our entire premise was totally wrong, you would think someone currently working for PSA would come on here and correct us. I don't see anyone.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Originally Posted by travrosty

The more things change, the more they stay the same. If our entire premise was totally wrong, you would think someone currently working for PSA would come on here and correct us. I don't see anyone.

Why should they? Only a small group of people in the total population know about Net54. By the numbers you provided earlier, everyone can see it is a huge business that makes them a lot of money. They have no obligation to you.

Based on the way Herman Darvick (who I had never heard of before this thread) was treated by you when he tried to explain his position....I would also stay far away from this place.

My disclaimer- Autographs are only a small part of my collection, I think that they are never a sure thing unless they were signed in person and have only once gotten an autograph authenticated. I respect many of the autograph collectors here, however it is just too speculative for my taste.

Jeff

[smotan_02]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

Based on the way Herman Darvick (who I had never heard of before this thread) was treated by you when he tried to explain his position....I would also stay far away from this place.

Jeff

+infinity

[alexautographs]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

Based on the way Herman Darvick (who I had never heard of before this thread) was treated by you when he tried to explain his position....I would also stay far away from this place.

Herman, whom I respect and have known for decades, was directly questioned about the provenance of an item. Personally, I don't see how he was abused.

All due respect, you can always collect safer items, such as Honus Wagner cards graded 8 by PSA, or Elvis hair.

As long as collectibles have any value at all, crooks will be foisting bad material on the public.

[mr2686]

Wow. You think Herman Darvick was abused? I don't think he was questioned near enough. I'm sure if Morales or anyone else had said the Jackson was good, you all would be all over them. Give me a break.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by ibuysportsephemera

Why should they? Only a small group of people in the total population know about Net54. By the numbers you provided earlier, everyone can see it is a huge business that makes them a lot of money. They have no obligation to you.

Based on the way Herman Darvick (who I had never heard of before this thread) was treated by you when he tried to explain his position....I would also stay far away from this place.

My disclaimer- Autographs are only a small part of my collection, I think that they are never a sure thing unless they were signed in person and have only once gotten an autograph authenticated. I respect many of the autograph collectors here, however it is just too speculative for my taste.

Jeff

I wouldn't say Herman was abused either. Maybe we were a bit "animated"? He told us the back story and answered follow-up to it as well.

His explanation was thorough and told us what he remembered 18 1/2 years ago. he stands by his work then. He didn't get a chance to reexamine it, but stood behind his work 18 1/2 years ago. Love him or hate him, he came on like a professional to stand up for himself. I have respect for that.

You wont see PSA or JSA doing that...which is one of many reasons, professionals (not in this business) like me are sick of their smug NO HEAR, NO SEE, NO TELL attitude. F them. They have a responsibility to their customers and they shun everyone. Personally, I shun them and would never pay .01 cent to have them even certify a double cheeseburger from McDonalds.

[Fuddjcal]

Originally Posted by travrosty

The more things change, the more they stay the same. If our entire premise was totally wrong, you would think someone currently working for PSA would come on here and correct us. I don't see anyone.

+1