Giants VS Cardinals

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

I think giants beat tigers easily. Tigers could barely beat a yankee team that hit .188(talking about scores of games).

Barely beat? Tigers swept the yanks....

[sportscardpete]

Cain is a flat out machine...

Verlander has been fantastic this postseason, but he was pretty off in his previous two postseason attempts.. Lets see if he keeps it up. If he continues to be fantastic then I think Detroit gets it. They have a lot of power in the middle order..

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by sportscardpete

Cain is a flat out machine...

Verlander has been fantastic this postseason, but he was pretty off in his previous two postseason attempts.. Lets see if he keeps it up. If he continues to be fantastic then I think Detroit gets it. They have a lot of power in the middle order..

Cain a flat out machine? Let's not get crazy. He had a good year, but he definitely overachieved. He slowed down as the year moved forward as was expected. Verlander is a machine. Watch both pitchers and you'll figure this out very quickly.

Cain pitched a paltry 5 2/3's innings with 4 k's in game 7...not great stats by any means. He's been a consistent pitcher for the past few years, but just emerged this year as the Giant's guy....He's good, but far from great.

[Anthony S.]

How did Cain overachieve? He's had an era under 2.90 and a whip under 1.09 for 3 out of the past 4 years. He has much better winning percentage this year for the simple reason that they're scoring more runs for him. Those first few post Bonds offensives were pretty anemic.

He also had 3 starts and pitched 20 and 1/3 innings during the 2010 playoffs without giving up a single earned run.

[thekingofclout]

I think the key to this Series, is which Lincecum shows up. The one from the last four years or the one from this year.

[71buc]

Originally Posted by thekingofclout

I think the key to this Series, is which Lincecum shows up. The one from the last four years or the one from this year.

I pull for him as he is a local guy. I watched him in high school and college. His 2012 numbers are a continuation of the struggles that began the last half of 2011.

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by 71buc

I pull for him as he is a local guy. I watched him in high school and college. His 2012 numbers are a continuation of the struggles that began the last half of 2011.

Tim didn't struggle during the 2nd half of 2011. He had a 2.31 era after the all-star break last year. He struggled (big time) in August of 2010, but straightened things out in September and on into the post season that year.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

How did Cain overachieve? He's had an era under 2.90 and a whip under 1.09 for 3 out of the past 4 years. He has much better winning percentage this year for the simple reason that they're scoring more runs for him. Those first few post Bonds offensives were pretty anemic.

He also had 3 starts and pitched 20 and 1/3 innings during the 2010 playoffs without giving up a single earned run.

Maybe it's just me, but I am unbiased when it comes to any player...I just don't see elite when I see Cain pitch.

He had his best overall year this year...therefore I believe he overachieved. Maybe he's going to be better from this year moving forward, but he was never great, but more of a good pitcher. You can say what you want about wins and losses and run support, but Felix never gets run support and he's considered elite. Until this year, no one would really think of comparing Cain with Felix...I still don't. Cain was more of a 6 inning, 5-7 strikeout kinda guy until this year. He has career numbers of 85-78 in the win loss column...run support or not, the Giants haven't been a bad team since he's been there. He's never deserved to be a #1 guy until this year....hence the overachieve label.

Edited to add: Anthony, I just noticed you're from San Francisco...your post makes a lot more sense now. And good luck to the Giants...should be a great series.

[deebro041]

I like to see the results of players in the World Series who used to play in the opposing league. Fielder vs Scutaro!!

[itjclarke]

I'm still drying off after last night! This has been by far the most resiliant team I've ever rooted for. To respond to other comments, people who've watched baseball in this timezone and in this town know Cain has been a rock ever since he came up at age 20. He suffered through 2 years of the worst run support in baseball.. stayed mentally tough, focused and never wavered. There are some guys who are far better than their stats show (Cain) and rise to the occasion at the right time, and some guys aided by great run support and the freedom of consistantly pitching from ahead, who aren't necessarily as good as their stats say. Cain is much more than a 6 inning guy. Until the latter part of this year, he and the rest of this staff had been consitantly going deep into games, and he's got a nice streak of 200+ inning years. The whole starting staff hit a bump in the road toward the end of the year and into this postseason, but I think their best performances are ahead. Either way, it's still fun to see them still fly under the national radar, winning games the right way and as a team. Star power doesn't win (Angels, Dodgers, Yanks, Marlins, others prove that). I'm psyched for a great series and can't wait to be at the yard to see Zito's 85 MPH guts and guile up against Verlander's 99 MPH gas. They may not get to Verlander, but as always with this team, no one will play scared or intimidated.

[freakhappy]

Originally Posted by itjclarke

I'm still drying off after last night! This has been by far the most resiliant team I've ever rooted for. To respond to other comments, people who've watched baseball in this timezone and in this town know Cain has been a rock ever since he came up at age 20. He suffered through 2 years of the worst run support in baseball.. stayed mentally tough, focused and never wavered. There are some guys who are far better than their stats show (Cain) and rise to the occasion at the right time, and some guys aided by great run support and the freedom of consistantly pitching from ahead, who aren't necessarily as good as their stats say. Cain is much more than a 6 inning guy. Until the latter part of this year, he and the rest of this staff had been consitantly going deep into games, and he's got a nice streak of 200+ inning years. The whole starting staff hit a bump in the road toward the end of the year and into this postseason, but I think their best performances are ahead. Either way, it's still fun to see them still fly under the national radar, winning games the right way and as a team. Star power doesn't win (Angels, Dodgers, Yanks, Marlins, others prove that). I'm psyched for a great series and can't wait to be at the yard to see Zito's 85 MPH guts and guile up against Verlander's 99 MPH gas. They may not get to Verlander, but as always with this team, no one will play scared or intimidated.

Gotta love you 'frisco guys...God love ya!

Funny how you mention that star power doesn't win...but how many World Series do the star powered Yankees have? Sometimes being excited about your team making the World Series takes you out of reality. I'm excited for the Tigers and the Giants and it should make for a great series, but I think even the Giants are suprised they made it this far...did you see Pence's interview after the game? He was amazed at what happened...like most people are. I have a good feeling the Tigers aren't going to be so forgiving like the Red's and Cardinals were.

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by freakhappy

Maybe it's just me, but I am unbiased when it comes to any player...I just don't see elite when I see Cain pitch.

He had his best overall year this year...therefore I believe he overachieved. Maybe he's going to be better from this year moving forward, but he was never great, but more of a good pitcher. You can say what you want about wins and losses and run support, but Felix never gets run support and he's considered elite. Until this year, no one would really think of comparing Cain with Felix...I still don't. Cain was more of a 6 inning, 5-7 strikeout kinda guy until this year. He has career numbers of 85-78 in the win loss column...run support or not, the Giants haven't been a bad team since he's been there. He's never deserved to be a #1 guy until this year....hence the overachieve label.

Edited to add: Anthony, I just noticed you're from San Francisco...your post makes a lot more sense now. And good luck to the Giants...should be a great series.

The Giants haven't had a bad team since he's been there? He came up in 2005. His first four years the Giants were:

2005 75-87
2006 76-85
2007 71-91 last in the NL West
2008 70-92 last in the NL West

His record over those 4 years was 30-43. He was also ages 20-23 during those years.

Since then (starting in 2009) he's 55-35. Over the same time period Lincecum is 54-46.

The Giants have had the worst or close to the worst offense in each of these past 4 years. in 2011 Cain had 21 starts in which he allowed 2 runs or less. He only got 12 wins, because the Giants couldn't score (especially after Posey broke his ankle in early May).

Cain was the Giants #1 starter, statistically, in 2007, 2010, and 2012. During two of the three years he wasn't the Giants #1 starter, he was the Giants #2 starter, and the Giants #1 starter (Lincecum) won 2 Cy Young awards. One thing Cain has been over the past 4 years is extremely consistent. This year wasn't an aberration, and his stats bear that out.

Is he is good as Verlander or Hernandez? No. Is he a damn good pitcher who has been a damn good pitcher for quite a while, yes. And he'll take the ball 32-34 times a year, as he's done every year for 7 straight years, and you'll never find a dead hooker in the trunk of his car.

[thekingofclout]

Cain was the Giants #1 starter, statistically, in 2007, 2010, and 2012. During two of the three years he wasn't the Giants #1 starter, he was the Giants #2 starter, and the Giants #1 starter (Lincecum) won 2 Cy Young awards. One thing Cain has been over the past 4 years is extremely consistent. This year wasn't an aberration, and his stats bear that out.

Is he is good as Verlander or Hernandez? No. Is he a damn good pitcher who has been a damn good pitcher for quite a while, yes. And he'll take the ball 32-34 times a year, as he's done every year for 7 straight years, and you'll never find a dead hooker in the trunk of his car.

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[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by cubsfan-budman

Barely beat? Tigers swept the yanks....

That's why I said score!!! Tigers beat us 6-4, 3-0(should have been 1-0 but ump blew a easy call) and 2-1 with final game being the only blow out. If the Yankee team even had hit alittle they would have easily taken the first three games. In game 1 they loaded the bases THREE times and didn't score once. Another team in that same spot would have scored runs and won that game. Game two they left more men on base and didn't get hits with runners in scoring position.

Game three Verlander had nothing(he even said it) and left pitches right over the plate, yet Yankee hitters did nothing but pop them up. When going good they normally kill the pitches he had thrown them.

[rainier2004]

Originally Posted by yanks12025

That's why I said score!!! Tigers beat us 6-4, 3-0(should have been 1-0 but ump blew a easy call) and 2-1 with final game being the only blow out. If the Yankee team even had hit alittle they would have easily taken the first three games. In game 1 they loaded the bases THREE times and didn't score once. Another team in that same spot would have scored runs and won that game. Game two they left more men on base and didn't get hits with runners in scoring position.

Game three Verlander had nothing(he even said it) and left pitches right over the plate, yet Yankee hitters did nothing but pop them up. When going good they normally kill the pitches he had thrown them.

Verlanders comment was made about the 9th and he let one hang and gave up a HR. Also, the Yankees starting pitching was fantastic even if the bats sucked. Cabrera and Fielder have had a sub-par post-season, but neither stay cold very long. The timing factor will be more of a hinderance for them, hopefully its a good series.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Verlanders comment was made about the 9th and he let one hang and gave up a HR. Also, the Yankees starting pitching was fantastic even if the bats sucked. Cabrera and Fielder have had a sub-par post-season, but neither stay cold very long. The timing factor will be more of a hinderance for them, hopefully its a good series.

Also, you certainly can't disparage the heart that the Giants showed during their series, but I don't think they would have scored nearly as many runs as they did if the Card's defense hadn't fallen apart (particularly in game 7).

[yanks12025]

Originally Posted by rainier2004

Verlanders comment was made about the 9th and he let one hang and gave up a HR. Also, the Yankees starting pitching was fantastic even if the bats sucked. Cabrera and Fielder have had a sub-par post-season, but neither stay cold very long. The timing factor will be more of a hinderance for them, hopefully its a good series.

Verlander said at the end of the game he had nothing after the 4th inning and was just throwing balls in.