HOF releases pre-Integration ballot today.

[wolf441]

I don't think that putting in Bill Dahlen would be diluting the Hall of Fame at all. If you look at his top ten career comparables, 7 are in the HOF:

George Davis
Bid McPhee
Bobby Wallace
Luke Appling
Luis Aparicio
Ozzie Smith
Frankie Frisch

and you could make a decent case for Herman Long, Dave Concepcion and Omar Vizquel

[Old Hoss]

I take issue with the argument that if 19th-century players have not gotten in by now, they don't belong in the HOF for a number of reasons.

I will limit myself to one reason for now: we know much more about the early game now than we did even five or ten years ago. There is a vast amount of information from the 19th century that has only become widely-available in the last five years or so through online newspaper and genealogy databases, and there are a number of relatively new key resources for the researcher/reader/writer of 19th-century baseball (the journal Base Ball: A Journal of the Early Game, work done by Peter Morris, work done by members of SABR's 19th-century committee, to give examples). Thus, we have a better idea of how early players stacked up in their time.

Through this relatively newfound information has come the revelation that there are worthy players who have been left out. Doesn't this make perfect sense?

Charles

[Peter_Spaeth]

Last thing we need is more cricket players in the Hall.

[oldjudge]

“It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.”

[Peter_Spaeth]

Lol. Good one, Jay.

[z28jd]

I would vote for Deacon White if I had the vote, but not this year and I'll give a good reason. He is the last Pirates(Alleghenys) player I need for my Pittsburgh Old Judge team set. He gets in the HOF, his prices will skyrocket immediately. I would elect Hank O'Day and the reason for that is because I have his Old Judge card, which I would then gladly trade for a Deacon White!

[Joe_G.]

Thanks for bumping the thread Jay. Here is the book you referenced (I've ordered my copy).

Auditioning for Cooperstown: Rating Baseball's Stars for the Hall of Fame
Andre Lower

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/061...ls_o00_s00_i00

I've been hopeful for Deacon White for many years, I'm hoping his time has come although I'd love to pick up more of his items at non-HOFer prices.

[z28jd]

O'day, Ruppert and Deacon White just made the Hall! Wish I got that Deacon White card I need for my Pirates Old Judge set(last card!) before today. The price on him and O'Day just skyrocketed if Bid McPhee set any precedent.

BTW, My GD condition O'Day can be had for an authentic Deacon White or a bazillion dollars! Serious on the first part

[prewarsports]

I really dont see a huge increase (long term) happening for any of these guys cards. White's Old Judge card was already so rare and valuable that it will go up, but it was pricey before. O'Day is a common OJ to find so it will go up, maybe double, but not a huge increase. As for autographs, O'Day and White were so scarce to begin with it really wasn't a possibility to get one and Ruppert is SO common I cant imagine his signature doing much, maybe a 20% increase. O'Day and White would sell for a ton, dont get me wrong, but its not like any one of us could have gone out and purchased these on the open market. I have what believe to be an O'Day signature, but in 20+ years I have only seen one other on Jodi's baseball that sold in Guttierez auction about 7 years ago. I know of ONE Deacon White and its worth 100k probably, but its locked up tight in a collection anyways.

All in all, its a pretty anti-climactic end to an exciting group of possibilities in my opinion.

Rhys

[the-illini]

Originally Posted by prewarsports

I really dont see a huge increase (long term) happening for any of these guys cards. White's Old Judge card was already so rare and valuable that it will go up, but it was pricey before. O'Day is a common OJ to find so it will go up, maybe double, but not a huge increase. As for autographs, O'Day and White were so scarce to begin with it really wasn't a possibility to get one and Ruppert is SO common I cant imagine his signature doing much, maybe a 20% increase. O'Day and White would sell for a ton, dont get me wrong, but its not like any one of us could have gone out and purchased these on the open market. I have what believe to be an O'Day signature, but in 20+ years I have only seen one other on Jodi's baseball that sold in Guttierez auction about 7 years ago. I know of ONE Deacon White and its worth 100k probably, but its locked up tight in a collection anyways.

All in all, its a pretty anti-climactic end to an exciting group of possibilities in my opinion.

Rhys

I think the Scrapps Deacon White will see a pretty good jump in price, because that is what the "average" HOF collector will have the best chance at getting, which will lead to some bidding wars for a while. An OJ Deacon White is going to be a very pricy card if one ever gets on the market.

[z28jd]

I agree that long-term they won't have a huge increase, but short-term the first ones to auction will do strong numbers because you have people trying to fill new holes in collections. McPhee cards went for more right after he got elected than they do now, so even he leveled out. There are plenty of HOF'ers in the set more common than O'Day so I think the first few cards will be 3-4x the price, then they will level out to regular HOF prices for the set.

White cards already did go for more and from someone trying to get one for years to complete my Pirates set, he is very hard to find. If I could give anyone financial advice, if you're not married to the idea of owning a Deacon White card, put it up for auction before someone else does and watch the price. I can guarantee that while I'll bid a lot, it won't be me winning it at the price it will end at.

[novakjr]

Rookie card wise, O'day and White are already pretty much out of my reach..

Collectible-wise I do have White on the 1874 Harper's weekly Boston woodcut(edit: I have the 1902 reprinted issue)..and a guide page(I believe from the 20's) of the 1869 Forest City Blues.

I'm not sure if O'day was on any of the woodcuts..

Now, I'm trying to figure out what Ruppert's RC would technically be.. I know there's the 1962 Topps Ruth card that has him on it..And a card with him in 1948 Swell Babe Ruth movie set could lead to some confusion. He is mentioned by name on it, but the photo is of the actor playing him in the film.. I don't know if there is anything earlier or else of him though.

Anyone have any more info, or thoughts?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by wolf441

I don't think that putting in Bill Dahlen would be diluting the Hall of Fame at all. If you look at his top ten career comparables, 7 are in the HOF:

George Davis
Bid McPhee
Bobby Wallace
Luke Appling
Luis Aparicio
Ozzie Smith
Frankie Frisch

and you could make a decent case for Herman Long, Dave Concepcion and Omar Vizquel

Steve, most of those in your list (if not all), are on the low side of HOF credentials; thus, if Dahlen ranks with them, his addition would indeed be diluting the HOF.