HOF ballot coming up

EvilKing00 · #1 11-28-2012, 11:36 AM

listen i love Mick but he did alot of speed which - I know helps your performance

Runscott · #2 11-28-2012, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

listen i love Mick but he did alot of speed which - I know helps your performance

Well, we could kick out/(or prohibit) anyone who did speed....or drank alcohol .... or drank coffee (caffeine is arguably as performance-hancing as speed - I personally would argue moreso).

There has to be a line drawn somewhere. I completely understand yours - anything goes. I just don't agree with it.

E93 · #3 11-28-2012, 12:54 PM

Let them in. I agree with the reasons stated above. It is also more than a little hypocritical for MLB to practically encourage the use of PEDs by intentionally turning a blind eye to it for years and then get all self-righteous about it later. Bonds was one of the one most dominating offensive players in the history of the game and for him to not be in the Hall would be a travesty of justice.
JimB

EvilKing00 · #4 11-28-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E93

Let them in. I agree with the reasons stated above. It is also more than a little hypocritical for MLB to practically encourage the use of PEDs by intentionally turning a blind eye to it for years and then get all self-righteous about it later. Bonds was one of the one most dominating offensive players in the history of the game and for him to not be in the Hall would be a travesty of justice.
JimB

^ Agree

Runscott · #5 11-28-2012, 01:03 PM

I find these debates very interesting - I can't conceive that anyone would consider letting these guys in, but you guys can't conceive the opposite

It's almost like political viewpoints, or legalizing pot.

D. Bergin · #6 11-28-2012, 01:19 PM

I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole thing.........I've just grown very weary of it. It seems like there's no end, and this is a shadow that will hang over all athletes for a very long time.

I'm at the point, if Bonds gets in..........that's great, he is without a doubt the most dominant hitter I've ever seen in my time. If he doesn't get in..........well, that won't break my heart either.

I am also a bit loathe to see Baseball go the way of the NCAA. Wiping out teams, records, players, statistics and pretending large swaths of history never even existed...............for better or for worse.

wolf441 · #7 11-28-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I'm pretty ambivalent about the whole thing.........I've just grown very weary of it. It seems like there's no end, and this is a shadow that will hang over all athletes for a very long time.

I'm at the point, if Bonds gets in..........that's great, he is without a doubt the most dominant hitter I've ever seen in my time. If he doesn't get in..........well, that won't break my heart either.

I am also a bit loathe to see Baseball go the way of the NCAA. Wiping out teams, records, players, statistics and pretending large swaths of history never even existed...............for better or for worse.

I feel the exact same way. Let them in and then trust the fans who go to Cooperstown to know the history of the game. I wouldn't feel dirty about seeing a Barry Bonds plaque. It would give me a chance to explain to my kids "here's a guy that was already an incredible talent, and yet he got greedy and took drugs in order to gain more fame". Their legacy is already what it is, whether they make it in the HOF or not.

David W · #8 11-28-2012, 02:46 PM

I think you have to put all the guys who started in the mid 80's to early 90's, or none of them.

I personally think almost all were using some sort of PED's.

You cannot have the incredible, historic numbers in the huge quantities and at the advanced ages without getting a "little pick me up" of PED's.

Randy Johnson, Clemens, Bonds, should have been declining in production as they hit the mid 30's instead they were better than ever.

Piazza has offensive numbers that no catcher ever had before or since.....

Luis Gonzalez and Brady Anderson having historic seasons......

Either put them all in, or put none in, as we only know of a handful who were caught when it is likely all were using to some extent.

Peter_Spaeth · #9 11-28-2012, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E93

Let them in. I agree with the reasons stated above. It is also more than a little hypocritical for MLB to practically encourage the use of PEDs by intentionally turning a blind eye to it for years and then get all self-righteous about it later. Bonds was one of the one most dominating offensive players in the history of the game and for him to not be in the Hall would be a travesty of justice.
JimB

Yes, he was, but that dominance was achieved in violation of the rules. (He probably was a first ballot HOFer before he ever used, but for purposes of this argument leave that aside.) Suppose he hadn't used PEDs but it turned out he had used an illegal corked bat his whole career. Wouldn't you view his dominance as tainted in that case and if so, what's the difference?

EvilKing00 · #10 11-28-2012, 02:09 PM

I think bonds, mcgwire clemens, as well as joe jackson and pete rose should be in.

Now i have a question..... Should mike piazza get in??? I think So but.

Comming from a met fan, he was on PEDs too, but so far he wasnt cought i guess.

So some guys out and some in? We know bonds did it but never was cought - piazza wasnt cought either. both in or both out??

D. Bergin · #11 11-28-2012, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EvilKing00

I think bonds, mcgwire clemens, as well as joe jackson and pete rose should be in.

Now i have a question..... Should mike piazza get in??? I think So but.

Comming from a met fan, he was on PEDs too, but so far he wasnt cought i guess.

So some guys out and some in? We know bonds did it but never was cought - piazza wasnt cought either. both in or both out??

What about Palmiero? That guy has mind-boggling lifetime stats for a guy struggling to get 12% of the Hall's votes.

Hit several milestone numbers. Top 20 all-time in a ton of categories. A top defensive 1st Baseman, even if one of his Gold Gloves is bogus.

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