O/T feel sick inside - CT Elementary shooting

Peter_Spaeth · #1 12-18-2012, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

I politely and completely disagree. Every Principal and Asst.Principal goes through extraordinary background checks AND (most importantly) already has 100% access to our kids. Even if not permitted to carry a gun a wacko principal or asst. could do the same thing. I say let them be armed. I know it's unpopular to some,...but if the day ever came and your son or daughter was about to be killed, and your vote to have the administrator carry a gun, saved their life, you would be thankful. As for irate students.....not really anything stopping them from going crazy already. My vote goes to being able to defend ourselves. This is one of those issues where there will be very good arguments on both sides, for me though, the scale tips to the side of having the good guys armed.

Maybe people buying guns should have to go through similar background checks. Or is that too great a restriction on our precious freedom? Or does that make it too easy for our government to invade?

vintagetoppsguy · #2 12-18-2012, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe people buying guns should have to go through similar background checks. Or is that too great a restriction on our precious freedom? Or does that make it too easy for our government to invade?

Peter, they are going through background checks. Even if the background checks were more extensive (which I believe they could/should be), the problem is there is nothing in their background that would keep them from obtaining these weapons.

Please tell me, what in James Holmes' or Adam Lanza's background would have been discovered that would have made them fail the check?

Edited to add: I know the guns in the Midtown shooting were registered to the mom, but my point is that even if Adam had obtained them legally himself, nothing would have come up in the background check that would have prevented him from purchasing them.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 12-18-2012, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Peter, they are going through background checks. Even if the background checks were more extensive (which I believe they could/should be), the problem is there is nothing in their background that would keep them from obtaining these weapons.

Please tell me, what in James Holmes' or Adam Lanza's background would have been discovered that would have made them fail the check?

Holmes was under psychiatric care at the time, was he not? And no check was required for him to buy hundreds of rounds of ammunition, was there? Perhaps some reform there is warranted, although again, we may make ourselves vulnerable to invasion by the Feds.

Leon · #4 12-18-2012, 02:10 PM

One small district in Texas already has teachers with guns....I know there isn't a perfect solution....but as I have said, if a bad person goes into my daughters school to cause tragedy I would rather the staff be able to defend our kiddos and themselves than not ....It's really just a preference. I am certainly open to better solutions.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...174238129.html

.

steve B · #5 12-18-2012, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

One small district in Texas already has teachers with guns....I know there isn't a perfect solution....but as I have said, if a bad person goes into my daughters school to cause tragedy I would rather the staff be able to defend our kiddos and themselves than not ....It's really just a preference. I am certainly open to better solutions.

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/...174238129.html

.

Interesting.

I'm thinking back to the teachers I had, and considering which ones I'd want to be in class with if things went bad.

Maybe 1/4 of them? probably much less. And I was in HS when a decent percentage of the male teachers were veterans of either WWII or Korea. The headmaster was a Marine reserve colonel, so he'd probably be ok.

The difficulty with guns for protection is that unless you're well trained, not just target, but simulations with moving and surprise targets and non-targets.
AND
You're absolutely willing to use it to kill someone.

If not, then it's a major liability. Many people react by freezing up or running.
Either takes the defending yourself out of the picture.

Steve B

Leon · #6 12-18-2012, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Maybe people buying guns should have to go through similar background checks. Or is that too great a restriction on our precious freedom? Or does that make it too easy for our government to invade?

When did I ever say people shouldn't have to go through background checks? Look, if you don't want to protect yourself, no problem. Others that do want to protect themselves, and meet the qualifications, should be able to. On the invading of our government, silly argument and I have no comment. I don't think the world is ending in 3 days or the sky is falling either.

And Clayton- I see we are on opposite sides of the invading government debate. Sorry, my opinion, which is exactly equal to yours (they both count as 1) is that is a silly debate. It won't happen regardless of Pol Pot.

Runscott · #7 12-18-2012, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

When did I ever say people shouldn't have to go through background checks? Look, if you don't want to protect yourself, no problem. Others that do want to protect themselves, and meet the qualifications, should be able to. On the invading of our government, silly argument and I have no comment. I don't think the world is ending in 3 days or the sky is falling either.

I actually feel safer without a gun, but I'm all for people having the right to protect themselves with a gun if they choose to. I just question guns outside of the home, when not used for hunting (non-human hunting). I see too many angry poor-decision makers walking around town - even policemen, who are supposedly well-trained on use of force.

teetwoohsix · #8 12-18-2012, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leon

When did I ever say people shouldn't have to go through background checks? Look, if you don't want to protect yourself, no problem. Others that do want to protect themselves, and meet the qualifications, should be able to. On the invading of our government, silly argument and I have no comment. I don't think the world is ending in 3 days or the sky is falling either.

And Clayton- I see we are on opposite sides of the invading government debate. Sorry, my opinion, which is exactly equal to yours (they both count as 1) is that is a silly debate. It won't happen regardless of Pol Pot.

No problem Leon

I am not saying it will happen, and hope it never does. But, alot of gun owners feel their guns are a sort of "safety net" from something like this happening here. I do not own a gun, but I feel responsible people have the right to own any type of firearm they want. It's part of being "free".

Group punishment never works. That is what some people seem to be for.

Sincerely, Clayton

Peter_Spaeth · #9 12-18-2012, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

No problem Leon

I am not saying it will happen, and hope it never does. But, alot of gun owners feel their guns are a sort of "safety net" from something like this happening here. I do not own a gun, but I feel responsible people have the right to own any type of firearm they want. It's part of being "free".

Group punishment never works. That is what some people seem to be for.

Sincerely, Clayton

Sure Clayton, if you could make sure that only the responsible people got them, that would be great. But as things stand, mentally ill people capable of a psychotic rampage, and sane but evil people can get them too.

teetwoohsix · #10 12-18-2012, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Sure Clayton, if you could make sure that only the responsible people got them, that would be great. But as things stand, mentally ill people capable of a psychotic rampage, and sane but evil people can get them too.

Very true Peter.

I think society is stressed out, and we are seeing the results. The media seems to love pumping the public with fear and tragedy, financial devastation and endless wars, it isn't much of a suprise to me that people who aren't mentally stable are begining to snap.

I hope we as a country can start figuring out a way to heal and find some compassion for everyone who is hurting and struggling. Not just when a horrible tragedy strikes.

Sincerely, Clayton

Peter_Spaeth · #11 12-18-2012, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Very true Peter.

I think society is stressed out, and we are seeing the results. The media seems to love pumping the public with fear and tragedy, financial devastation and endless wars, it isn't much of a suprise to me that people who aren't mentally stable are begining to snap.

I hope we as a country can start figuring out a way to heal and find some compassion for everyone who is hurting and struggling. Not just when a horrible tragedy strikes.

Sincerely, Clayton

There are certainly a lot of loading factors, I agree, although it's still unclear what went awry in this particular case, or in the case of Holmes and Loughner, among others.

kmac32 · #12 12-18-2012, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

There are certainly a lot of loading factors, I agree, although it's still unclear what went awry in this particular case, or in the case of Holmes and Loughner, among others.

In the case of Loughner, it's pretty clear what happened. There was a severe case of non parental supervisiion in this kids upbringing. The police found all kinds of clues in the family garage that the parents "had no idea their son was up to". He was a very troubled kid and many things in his high school pointed to it. The parents refused to accept any responsibility for his actions in school and it continued frm there. If the parents had been involved and paid attention, none of that incident would have ever happened. Loughner had even written hate mail to congresswoman Giffords before and nothing was done. Tha scary part is he was still able to get weapons and buy ammo from a local Walmart. Typical for Arizona is getting a gun with little or no questions asked.

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