FAKE packs and an FBI Fraud Investigation: What would YOU do?

[probstein123]

1979 Thrman Munson his card ony came in the bottom section and a
true expert should know that
==> how is this rock solid definitive info ? very curious to know and understand.
thx

[HasselhoffsCheeseburger]

Originally Posted by probstein123

1979 Thrman Munson his card ony came in the bottom section and a
true expert should know that
==> how is this rock solid definitive info ? very curious to know and understand.
thx

Good to see you doing some research on unopened material after seeing all those bad rack packs you were selling.

[mcadams]

Pepis- If this is your version of an apology, then I'd say its one of the worst apologies I've ever heard. You have a lot of nerve posting an admission here in such a callous and unremorseful fashion.

[cincyredlegs]

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

Good to see you doing some research on unopened material after seeing all those bad rack packs you were selling.

+1

[cguidi]

I so wish I could be there to see the look on the poor jurors' (the 12 people Pepis is planning on showing his packs to) faces when they find out that this is the case they are going to be stuck listening to... something tells me that by the time the lawyers are done screening no one there will be nearly as interested as anyone who is reading this forum. Unless of course Pepis has a Runaway Jury partner in crime...

[botn]

Wow a thread that brought out Rick Probstein. Too bad Rick never piped in on threads that he and his auctions were the subject of.

[Bugsy]

Originally Posted by botn

Wow a thread that brought out Rick Probstein. Too bad Rick never piped in on threads that he and his auctions were the subject of.

That is exactly what I noticed. Here is a fresh one:

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ight=probstein

[brob28]

Looks like nobody directly answered your questions. I'll leave the legal advice to others and stick to simple "do the right thing" answers.

Questions for the board:
A) Is it morally ok for me to sell the packs on the list? Seriously? No its not ok to sell something you have reason to believe is altered.

B) How would you feel if you saw a pack you owned on the list? Umm, Bad

C) Should I disclose to my friend that he could have a fake pack even though I told Steve Hart I would not share the list with anyone No, you yourself said Steve is honorable, so treat him honorably and do as you promised

D) Should I contact the consigner of the packs I sold and let him know he may have passed on fake packs Not now, you yourself said there are still questions on many packs, wait for the FBI investigation to finish and deal with any bogus packs you consigned at that time

E) I have the entire list of possible bad packs. Should I post them so people can view it or keep it a secret because I told Steve Hart I would not share the list with anyone.* I refer to the last half of your question "C" live up to your word with Steve. BTW I really hope you have not caused Steve a world of hurt by going public that he gave you this list while there is an ongoing FBI investigation

F) Should I at least expose the pack I see on ebay right now?* Even though it may be real? No, as you just said it may be real

[probstein123]

Wow a thread that brought out Rick Probstein. Too bad Rick never piped in on threads that he and his auctions were the subject of.
==> hey greg, I'll reply to that 1914 cracker jack thread shortly...

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by botn

Wow a thread that brought out Rick Probstein. Too bad Rick never piped in on threads that he and his auctions were the subject of.

Originally Posted by HasselhoffsCheeseburger

Good to see you doing some research on unopened material after seeing all those bad rack packs you were selling.

If I were a dealer I wouldn't post many questions here either if these were the types of responses I got.

jeff

[Matthew H]

Originally Posted by jefferyepayne

If I were a dealer I wouldn't post many questions here either if these were the types of responses I got.

jeff

Lots of dealers ask questions here, ones that have no reason to garner such negative responses, don't.

I have bought stuff from Rick P, and will continue to as he's got quality material, and I think he's a good seller. I will however, examine closely the biddig activity. It is my opinion that some his consignors are using him as an easy avenue to shill their lots, and no one on his end really cares...

Matt Hall

[jefferyepayne]

Originally Posted by Matthew H

Lots of dealers ask questions here, ones that have no reason to garner such negative responses, don't.

I have bought stuff from Rick P, and will continue to as he's got quality material, and I think he's a good seller. I will however, examine closely the biddig activity. It is my opinion that some his consignors are using him as an easy avenue to shill their lots, and no one on his end really cares...

Matt Hall

I have no problem with your position at all. My only point is that we can either use this forum to constantly complain about grading companies, dealers, bad buyers, bad sellers, etc, etc, etc or try to improve the hobby when given the opportunity. If a dealer shows any sign of wanting to learn more about how to spot fakes, reprints, repacked packs, etc., I think we should take it as an opportunity to educate instead of pile on.

jeff

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Using Google's "poofed-thread" recovery feature, here's some of the packs StarPaxMan was showing off along with some interesting admissions:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache6XfjCoo3MgJ:forums.collectors.com/messageview.cfm%3Fcatid%3D11%26threadid%3D848796%2 6STARTPAGE%3D4+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...ient=firefox-a

In thread #6 1980scollector wrote:

Just want to thank Jose. Today, made him an offer for two packs. He came back and actually offered to sell the two for 50.00 less than my offer.

In all my days, never had someone take my offer and reduce it.

Can't wait to get my two packs!

So it appears some of these were sold unless the deal never went through.

[Matthew H]

Dan, where are the admissions?

[pepis]

Originally Posted by probstein123

1979 Thrman Munson his card ony came in the bottom section and a
true expert should know that
==> how is this rock solid definitive info ? very curious to know and understand.
thx

it is actually pretty simple to verefy,,
in 1979 cards were issued in 6 different series A,B,C,D,E & F
if you look on the back side of every card you'll find one of these letters next to the copy right which would indicate what panel the card came from
now if you open a legit 79 cello you'll find 2 sections separeted by a gum piece the cards in the top section should be from series D,E,F panels
and the bottom section would have cards from A,B,C, panels, AGAIN EASY A,B,C, CARDS ON THE BOTTOM SECTION,,D,E,F, IN THE TOP SECTION
if anybody checks every pack on EBAY current or past you will never find a common card from A,B,C, on top, the only time you see an A,B,C, card
on the top section is when somebody put a STAR from that panel on a home-made pack all of you with 79 cellos can easily double check it.

[al032184]

Pepis, post a list of the cert numbers of the packs you received from PSA.

[pepis]

Originally Posted by al032184

Pepis, post a list of the cert numbers of the packs you received from PSA.

The packs that i was involved directly in altering that graded
are still in my posetion,, i call them proof and think only 12 people will see'm

[Taxman]

If you have a Psa cert number can you pulled all the cards in that submission? If so try this cert 19979599.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by pepis

The packs that i was involved directly in altering that graded
are still in my posetion,, i call them proof and think only 12 people will see'm

So you are claiming that you submitted resealed/fake cellos but never sold any of them?

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by pepis

The packs that i was involved directly in altering that graded
are still in my posetion,, i call them proof and think only 12 people will see'm

What does that mean? What 12 people? Proof of what? What do you mean you think 12 people? How many are NOT in your possession? Did you sell them? Give them away? Destroy them? Do you know who has them?

[Clutch-Hitter]

.......

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by pepis

The packs that i was involved directly in altering that graded
are still in my posetion,, i call them proof and think only 12 people will see'm

Why is he still on this forum?

[WhenItWasAHobby]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Why is he still on this forum?

Why do you ask? You may be right, but it's not clear to me so far. Please explain.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by WhenItWasAHobby

Why do you ask? You may be right, but it's not clear to me so far. Please explain.

Dan I was asking because he has admitted to faking packs. I really do not buy the Robin Hood story of trying to uncover the crooked PSA authenticator. I think he wanted to know if his packs could get past PSA and they did. I believe he sent them not to help the hobby, but to make more money in a crooked business. How would I know how to fake packs and get them past PSA if I were not in a crooked business. I do not think faking packs is a normal hobby for an honest hobbyist.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by Wymers Auction

Why is he still on this forum?

Because he puts his name on his posts, and we are not judge and jury. Do you have information that we should have?

[Goodsport40]

So has Jose ever explained this whole thing as requested?

If so I missed the explanation.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

Because he puts his name on his posts, and we are not judge and jury. Do you have information that we should have?

No Dan just asking a question and you answered it to my satisfaction thanks.

[Cardboard Junkie]

Originally Posted by pepis

The packs that i was involved directly in altering that graded
are still in my posetion,, i call them proof and think only 12 people will see'm

Your puny, futile, misspelled, and unmanly response does not hide what you really are. Key words from above "..that graded". So the ones that didn't grade , you sold. Thanks for your honesty and admission of guilt. I will now exit this thread.

[npa589]

I don't understand how Jose thinks he is a hero in this....