Opinion on Babe Ruth auto

[Westsiders]

I don't have the cert...but the card company does. But again, this card company has been around for a long time and is very reputable, so I'm confident that JSA has certified this auto, but I'm not sure that the auto is legit.

For anyone that is well versed in Ruth auto's, please let me know what you think about this auto. If suspicious, please let me know what exactly you think is problematic with the auto.

Thanks Again!

[jgmp123]

Why are you so concerned with what's wrong with the autograph, but are being so secretive about everything...who is the card company? How much are they asking? What is cert #?

[thecatspajamas]

If it's a replacement for a previous card that there were issues with, why would you agree to accept it as a replacement without seeing the JSA cert. yourself? And again, if you yourself are questioning whether the signature is good, why would you agree to accept it as a replacement regardless of what certification it comes with? Just get your money back, and then shop around for one that is acceptable. Without knowing how much you're into this transaction for, you have to ask yourself, "If this was the first signature offered to me, would I have purchased it at that price?" If the answer is "no," (and judging by your misgivings, it is), then it's not an acceptable substitute.

As a seller, I have never been comfortable with the scenario of locking a buyer into accepting "store credit" for something they had to return. Just get the item back, give them their money back, and then let them decide whether to use that money to continue to do business with you.

[Westsiders]

Actually, a long story. I orginally purchased the first item from a 3rd party...not the card company. After I recieved the card, I saw I few things about the auto that I wasn't comfortable with. I did a TON of research, and was 100% convinced that the auto on the original card was not authentic. After presenting my case to the card company, they agreed to replace the original card. The photo in this link is what they're offering as the auto in the replacement card.

When I first saw the photo that they sent, I loved the appearance of the auto (big, bold, etc..). But after studying it, I felt that the "B" of Babe is atypical. I'm getting a lot of responses saying that there's "no way" this auto is real, but no one is willing to elaborate. I'm trying to present a case to the card company, as well as educate myself...so any further details would be appreciated.

[Westsiders]

Guys,

You're killling me...

If I had the JSA cert, I would post it. The card company said that it's JSA certified, and I have no reason to doubt it. The cert isn't going to provide any additional info other than to say that in JSA's "considered opinion", the auto is legit.

Trust me, the card company is tired of dealing with me, and they know that I'm going to research any auto they give to me as a replacement.

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Westsiders

Guys,

You're killling me...

If I had the JSA cert, I would post it. The card company said that it's JSA certified, and I have no reason to doubt it. The cert isn't going to provide any additional info other than to say that in JSA's "considered opinion", the auto is legit.

Trust me, the card company is tired of dealing with me, and they know that I'm going to research any auto they give to me as a replacement.

if you cant post a picture of the cert, then quit wasting everyone's time. it hasnt been verified as jsa certified if you havent seen the cert or cant show it to people. i am not a fan of jsa, but you have to be fair when calling it a jsa certified item. its always the autograph that is important, and the cert shouldn't matter when getting people's opinion of good vs. bad, but you can't say something is abc or xyz certified when you dont have proof. proof is a photo or copy of the LOA so we can SEE it! Why does this smell of a set up?

We've been in this hobby too long to have our time wasted.

it is a jsa certified if it has a jsa cert, if you dont have or cant get a picture of the jsa cert, then its not jsa certified. period. in this hobby, you trust but verify.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by travrosty

if you cant post a picture of the cert, then quit wasting everyone's time. it hasnt been verified as jsa certified if you havent seen the cert or cant show it to people. i am not a fan of jsa, but you have to be fair when calling it a jsa certified item. its always the autograph that is important, and the cert shouldn't matter when getting people's opinion of good vs. bad, but you can't say something is abc or xyz certified when you dont have proof. proof is a photo or copy of the LOA so we can SEE it! Why does this smell of a set up?

We've been in this hobby too long to have our time wasted.

it is a jsa certified if it has a jsa cert, if you dont have or cant get a picture of the jsa cert, then its not jsa certified. period. in this hobby, you trust but verify.

Agreed... I really really REALLY doubt JSA would EVER cert this auto. Prove it or stop posting it as JSA certed.

[Westsiders]

Originally Posted by travrosty

if you cant post a picture of the cert, then quit wasting everyone's time. it hasnt been verified as jsa certified if you havent seen the cert or cant show it to people. i am not a fan of jsa, but you have to be fair when calling it a jsa certified item. its always the autograph that is important, and the cert shouldn't matter when getting people's opinion of good vs. bad, but you can't say something is abc or xyz certified when you dont have proof. proof is a photo or copy of the LOA so we can SEE it! Why does this smell of a set up?

We've been in this hobby too long to have our time wasted.

it is a jsa certified if it has a jsa cert, if you dont have or cant get a picture of the jsa cert, then its not jsa certified. period. in this hobby, you trust but verify.

Set up??? Really???

I'm a consumer trying to protect myself.

And you've "been in the hobby too long" to have your "time wasted".
You're in a freaking chat room...get over yourself.

[jgmp123]

Who is the "card company"? If said card company is sick of dealing with you, the tell them to give you the cert # so you can verify yourself. If it is a full cert, there will be a picture of the auto on the JSA verification page when you type in the cert.

[Wymers Auction]

Originally Posted by Westsiders

Guys,

You're killling me...

If I had the JSA cert, I would post it. The card company said that it's JSA certified, and I have no reason to doubt it. The cert isn't going to provide any additional info other than to say that in JSA's "considered opinion", the auto is legit.

Trust me, the card company is tired of dealing with me, and they know that I'm going to research any auto they give to me as a replacement.

We are not killing you in all due respect you are killing us. If you tell us all of the details we can

• Tell you if it truly is a legitimate card company. I have my doubts I have never heard of anyone purchasing a Ruth Auto and then if it is not good they send a replacement. That in itself is ridiculous.

The JSA cert number does matter we can tell if the cert truly points Tto a Ruth auto and the card would most likely show us a photo of the item. The reason why people are asking this is that the auto is so bad that they do not believe JSA certed this.
Many do not like to give details about the auto because they do not know the intentions of the person asking (forgery). Secondly if they were to tell you the details you are way too inexperienced to get it. This takes time a lot of these people on here have been in autos for 20+ years.I also would restate that if this is the second bad Babe Ruth in a row then this company is not legit. Coaches Corner has been in business awhile and a very high majority of their autos are fake.
Not trying to cause you trouble, but I have tried to summarize this in a truthful matter. Also, it is sort of silly to ask people for their help and then chastise them.

[daves_resale_shop]

[QUOTE=Westsiders;1092924]Actually, a long story. I orginally purchased the first item from a 3rd party...not the card company. After I recieved the card, I saw I few things about the auto that I wasn't comfortable with. I did a TON of research, and was 100% convinced that the auto on the original card was not authentic. After presenting my case to the card company, they agreed to replace the original card. The photo in this link is what they're offering as the auto in the replacement card.



I feel like this is becoming another insulting wagner thread (everyone please pardon me if I'm wrong)... The story is changing... why would a "card company" replace an autograph (with another) that was purchased from a
3rd party???

makes no sense...

Post the info requested or don't post at all

'Nuf Ced
-Dave Jr.

[Westsiders]

Set up???

Why? Who benefits? It a freaking chat room...

Here's why the card company has agreed to replace the item. They advertised the heck out of the Ruth auto card...as all companies do. Then someone bought a couple cases of the product, and opened a box containing the Ruth auto card. The card then hit the open market. I liked the card and knew that it came from a reputable company...so I bought it. After receiving the card and studying it, I became concerned with a few aspects of the auto (which was also JSA certified). I did a ton of research regarding my concerns, and presented the info to the card company. They beleived my concerns to be valid, so they offered to give me a replacement card. I told them that I would like to see that auto that would be in the card (prior to agreeing to it as a replacement). The photo in this link is the one that they sent.

I've told them that I have concerns with this auto, and was hoping for a little more info to strenthen my concerns...But no one in this forum is able and/or willing to provide me with any additional info.

Just trying to get a legit Babe Ruth auto card to give to my son.

[Westsiders]

They're not asking anything...it's a replacement card. The photo is of the Ruth auto that they are/were going to replace it with. I know there are a ton of experienced collectors in this forum, just hoping that someone can give me more than "don't like it" or "not good". I am new to collecting Ruth autos, and would like to know more.

Thanks.

[daves_resale_shop]

"The JSA cert has been verified to be legitmate"

If this is the case, then simply post the cert # and or cert itself...

net54 is clearly a community of experts in the field who are willing and able to lend a helping hand when necessary... The people who are members of this forum bring tremendous value and input to the hobby...Please, if you are asking for advice, be willing to divulge information as to where the autograph is coming from, what the cert # is & who certified it... If you are looking for input to protect yourself, you should be willing to share information to protect us all...

Although I am novice autograph collector I will say that I find many things wrong with this Ruth (most notably what you pointed out).

Please, do us all a favor... post the legitimate cert # and or the cert itself...

Kindest Regards & Happy Collecting!
Dave Jr.

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Westsiders

I don't have the cert...but the card company does. But again, this card company has been around for a long time and is very reputable, so I'm confident that JSA has certified this auto, but I'm not sure that the auto is legit.

For anyone that is well versed in Ruth auto's, please let me know what you think about this auto. If suspicious, please let me know what exactly you think is problematic with the auto.

Thanks Again!

This line always scares me... Especially when big brother is watching and 2+2=5...

Originally Posted by Westsiders

Vague???

I've explained the entire situation. If I had the cert I would post it. This very reputable card company assured me that it's JSA certified.

And for those asking why I don't list the card companies name....it's to protect myself. If I came in here blasting this card company, what leverage would that leave me with? Remember, I'm still waiting for the replacement card. As it stands, I'm out a lot of $$, with no Ruth auto card to show for it. The card company agreed to show me the replacement auto before puting it in a card....and that is where the auto (photo'd) comes from. They have assured me that it's JSA certified...and it would be crazy for them to falsify that (simply wouldn't do it).

Like I said, I'm new here, so maybe there underlying circumstances that I'm not familiar...but set ups?? Really?? Why in the world would I make this story up?

I try to stay out of things where I end up needing to post my name but going to give my opinion here... You should have no problem giving us the information, you're not protecting yourself or anyone "holding the name", I personally believe your intent is to deceive and you want Net54 to tell you exactly what is wrong with your forgery so you can forge another, better one and ask again. I've seen a lot of companies deal with replacements, Panini, Topps, UD - NONE OF THEM EVER gives a photograph of what they are replacing it with LET ALONE ask you if you think the autograph is good prior to it going in the card, they simply replace it (so you're telling me over hundreds and thousands of replacements they gave you priority and special treatment? I think not). There is no JSA cert on this auto, there never will be. I'm not even familiar with Ruth and even I can tell you it is a piss ass poor forgery.

You don't have a photo of this "previous" card, and your photograph is taken with a low quality camera, all the card companies have much more expensive cameras that would take better pictures (even though they didn't provide you with this one)

And you're right, it would be crazy of them to falsify statements, but I highly doubt it is them - I don't even think they are involved, I think it is you. Your photo is piss poor and comes from a cell phone. I'd suggest leaving and not coming back. The only reason you would argue with some of the most knowledgeable collector's in the hobby is because you already knew the answer (your forgery, not a card companies). Leave and don't come back.


S34N.B4551K

[Sean1125]

A did a little bit more digging and even found the autograph you traced!

http://www.collecting-autographs.com...autograph.html

[GrayGhost]

Wow. BAM..

Great work, Mr. Holmes.

[GKreindler]

Whoa.

[Scott Garner]

Yikes!
I love it!

[daves_resale_shop]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

A did a little bit more digging and even found the autograph you traced!

http://www.collecting-autographs.com...autograph.html

Nice work!

[Mr. Zipper]

I've often suspected some of the "can you tell me specifically what's wrong with this autograph" inquiries were forgers testing the water and looking for improvement tips. (On chat boards everywhere... Not just here.)

This is the closest I've seen to confirming that suspicion.

[jrlebert]

Wow. I could not be more impressed with the sleuthing that was done in this thread. Here I was, all set to be a little huffy at the fact that all this guy was looking for was answers on why his auto wasn't legit, and, man, am I glad I held my tongue.

Sean, I would have never thought of most of the points that you threw out here, and then to go and find the exact signature? Killed it.

Yet another reason why I belong to this forum. Just saying a quick thanks to everyone. Fantastic read.

[GrayGhost]

Originally Posted by jrlebert

Wow. I could not be more impressed with the sleuthing that was done in this thread. Here I was, all set to be a little huffy at the fact that all this guy was looking for was answers on why his auto wasn't legit, and, man, am I glad I held my tongue.

Sean, I would have never thought of most of the points that you threw out here, and then to go and find the exact signature? Killed it.

Yet another reason why I belong to this forum. Just saying a quick thanks to everyone. Fantastic read.

+1

[Sean1125]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

I've often suspected some of the "can you tell me specifically what's wrong with this autograph" inquiries were forgers testing the water and looking for improvement tips. (On chat boards everywhere... Not just here.)

This is the closest I've seen to confirming that suspicion.

I believe a majority of the inquiries into autographs are along those lines. How the person reacts and what they say is a big indication. This individuals gang affiliation in addition to what was said means the red flag has been raised and flown. I was debating about holding that pic but with how I went off without it you would think I'm crazy!

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Mr. Zipper

I've often suspected some of the "can you tell me specifically what's wrong with this autograph" inquiries were forgers testing the water and looking for improvement tips. (On chat boards everywhere... Not just here.)

This is the closest I've seen to confirming that suspicion.

+1

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by Sean1125

A did a little bit more digging and even found the autograph you traced!

http://www.collecting-autographs.com...autograph.html

I just noticed this thread today and must say GREAT WORK Sean.
Amazing how after you discovered this picture the OP has stopped posting.
Also pretty funny that an article about collecting Ruth autographs has a bogus illustration at the top.

[Westsiders]

Guys,

I'm the OP... My name is Scott Romero, and I live in Southern California. Everything that I've posted here is 100% true and accurate. The notions that I'm a forger...or even better "gang affiliated" are completely off-base. Btw...the name "Westsiders" comes from long standing fantasy football league (league was east coast based, and I was the only one on the West Coast...hence the name).

Again, I'm new here and must be missing something. The comments about "big brother watching", and "set up"...I just don't get. If I was a forger, wouldn't I pick a more typical Ruth auto to copy? The arguements/reasoning just don't make sense to me.

I think it's amazing that Sean found this auto on-line (I looked for hours with no success). But to be honest, I don't even know what to make of it. Is the auto on there because it's an example of a fake, or is it there because the author likes the appearance of the auto?

For arguements sake, let's take my photo out of it (which btw...was 100% sent to me by the card company). Is the auto itself real???

I am frustrated...but do appreciate help. And you guys must have some experience in these chat rooms that cause you to be extremely suspicious, just not sure why.

Thanks,

Scott

[GrayGhost]

The autograph you posted and that Sean found are one and the same as you know. In both cases, they ARE FORGERIES.

[cubsfan-budman]

Originally Posted by Westsiders

Guys,

I'm the OP... My name is Scott Romero, and I live in Southern California. Everything that I've posted here is 100% true and accurate. The notions that I'm a forger...or even better "gang affiliated" are completely off-base. Btw...the name "Westsiders" comes from long standing fantasy football league (league was east coast based, and I was the only one on the West Coast...hence the name).

Again, I'm new here and must be missing something. The comments about "big brother watching", and "set up"...I just don't get. If I was a forger, wouldn't I pick a more typical Ruth auto to copy? The arguements/reasoning just don't make sense to me.

I think it's amazing that Sean found this auto on-line (I looked for hours with no success). But to be honest, I don't even know what to make of it. Is the auto on there because it's an example of a fake, or is it there because the author likes the appearance of the auto?

For arguements sake, let's take my photo out of it (which btw...was 100% sent to me by the card company). Is the auto itself real???

I am frustrated...but do appreciate help. And you guys must have some experience in these chat rooms that cause you to be extremely suspicious, just not sure why.

Thanks,

Scott

man, you just need to move on. it's been repeated over and over by many experts here that the Ruth that you posted on your original message is not genuine.

people here guard the "tricks of the trade" closely...not because of a lack of generosity, but because they don't want to enable other scammers to create better forgeries. no expert here is going to tell you specifics on WHY that sig is bad. they did you a favor (one that several of the folks on this board get PAID to do for their livings) by letting you know that it is, indeed, fake.

i dont think you're actually a scammer, personally...but you already knew the answer to your question when you came here. that "B" in Babe is messed up. tell the "card company" that the sig is NOT satisfactory. Refer them here if you need to.

i do agree with many here that this reputable card company may not actually be all that reputable.

i'll bet you are out a good deal of money, and i hope you get the outcome you deserve.

best of luck.

Christian

[Westsiders]

Yep...I'm out a good chunk of change.

I had to go back and forth with the company for quite a while to get them to agree to replace the first card. Then waited several months for the replacement card, and seems I'm right back where I started...with a Ruth auto that doesn't seem legit.

Appreciate the advice.

Scott

[cubsfan-budman]

I would ask the company to send you at least the SN off of the JSA cert.

That auto is so obviously bad, I would assume that any JSA certification they have is also fake.

you could send that SN info to JSA and try to find out whats up.

Originally Posted by Westsiders

Yep...I'm out a good chunk of change.

I had to go back and forth with the company for quite a while to get them to agree to replace the first card. Then waited several months for the replacement card, and seems I'm right back where I started...with a Ruth auto that doesn't seem legit.

Appreciate the advice.

Scott

[yanks12025]

Wasn't there a article written acouple years ago about someone getting a Ruth auto from a card company and it was fake. So they asked for another and it was also bad?? Anyone know what I'm talking about.

[jgmp123]

It seems Sean has put a rest to all of our initial suspicions....

[GrayGhost]

He came to the wrong place. Too many people here are analytical and also give a damn bout people trying to rip someone off, in any fashion.