How does this Heritage/Mantle look to you?

[frankbmd]

Although I think the term pre-certified implies that someone may have looked at an item, the prefix pre- could be interpreted from a linguistic perspective as simply before. Thus pre-certified linguistically implies before certification, which also implies the item will be looked at some time in the future when it is certified or not.

Similarly if you have a three year old child in pre-k (nursery school), the term pre-K does not imply that the child is qualified for, eligible for or would ever be able to handle the rigors of the kindergarten curriculum.

Thus I do not think technically that pre-certified means anything with respect to the authenticity of an item, good, bad or ugly.

I raise this point not to defend Heritage or anyone else that uses the term pre-certified, just to clarify the actual meaning of the language involved. I am not commenting on intent.

[RichardSimon]

Frank,
I understand the point you are making but I would think that the vast majority of collectors would think that pre-certified for an autograph does mean that it has been looked at and that it appears, on first look, to be authentic.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Although I think the term pre-certified implies that someone may have looked at an item, the prefix pre- could be interpreted from a linguistic perspective as simply before. Thus pre-certified linguistically implies before certification, which also implies the item will be looked at some time in the future when it is certified or not.

Similarly if you have a three year old child in pre-k (nursery school), the term pre-K does not imply that the child is qualified for, eligible for or would ever be able to handle the rigors of the kindergarten curriculum.

Thus I do not think technically that pre-certified means anything with respect to the authenticity of an item, good, bad or ugly.

I raise this point not to defend Heritage or anyone else that uses the term pre-certified, just to clarify the actual meaning of the language involved. I am not commenting on intent.

What Frank said. Even if they made an internal mistake, that is what psa and jsa is for. They have a process in place.

Shelly... I don't think they want or should want your help at any cost. I would guess they would not want their name associated with you for many reasons.

Richard.. I see the same monkeys on this auto-side every day and you are one of them. Unfortunately, you are the one on the right as most would prefer you to be the one in the middle.

PS: It takes a special kind of monkey to call out an auction house on a Mickey Mantle autograph berfore it was looked at by psa and jsa. ESPECIALLY when he has had a couple CERTIFIED Mantle pieces that were horrible and well documented.

[RichardSimon]

Ben - when you come out of the dreamland you live in, this will be a better place.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

Ben - when you come out of the dreamland you live in, this will be a better place.

You are truly a Monkey. Would you like me to post your Mantles Mr. Simon?

[jgmp123]

Ben,

You honestly see no issues with an auction company as prevalent as Heritage is in this hobby listing an obvious forgery before it has been looked at by authenticators?

The fact that they withdrew it was obvious enough, just like the items they had in the big Walter Johnson auction a few weeks back that Hauls of Shame discovered.

My only beef is that they are displaying items for auction/sale that have not been reviewed by their authenticators. That is an issue. Why bring that kind of bad publicity when you don't have to.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

Ben,

You honestly see no issues with an auction company as prevalent as Heritage is in this hobby listing an obvious forgery before it has been looked at by authenticators?

The fact that they withdrew it was obvious enough, just like the items they had in the big Walter Johnson auction a few weeks back that Hauls of Shame discovered.

My only beef is that they are displaying items for auction/sale that have not been reviewed by their authenticators. That is an issue. Why bring that kind of bad publicity when you don't have to.

I guess that is their decision. They obviously missed it and have PSA AND JSA to look at it before it is sold. Would you honestly say that their "pre-certed" Mantles usually look like this??? I think it was a mistake and it would have been corrected whether Little Richard and Shelly jumped on them or not.

[jgmp123]

It was sent to them in the mail from a seller. When they opened the package and saw it, took photos, and loaded them to the site, they had the chance to not make the mistake. Once it's listed and pointed out as BAD, just like with the previous example when Hauls pointed out a bad item, it was pulled.

Don't let Scott see this and resurrect his green team signed Yankees ball from that auction...

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by jgmp123

It was sent to them in the mail from a seller. When they opened the package and saw it, took photos, and loaded them to the site, they had the chance to not make the mistake. Once it's listed and pointed out as BAD, just like with the previous example when Hauls pointed out a bad item, it was pulled.

What exactly is your point? Everyone is allowed to make mistakes(NASH, SHELLY, SIMON,,ECT) but not Heritage?? They even have a safety in place in PSA AND JSA.

[shelly]

Ben, really are a sweet guy. My opinion is as good as a thief from the Hall Of Fame that they hired. Funny you can try to insult people looking the way you do. {Ever consider a trainer?}By the by ask your friend DC which company does he disrespect more Heritage or CC?

That is the end of our conversation
Over and Out.

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by shelly

Ben, really are a sweet guy. My opinion is as good as a thief from the Hall Of Fame that they hired. Funny you can try to insult people looking the way you do. {Ever consider a trainer?}By the by ask your friend DC which company does he disrespect more Heritage or CC?

That is the end of our conversation
Over and Out.

It IS funny isn't it??? The way both you and Richard attack day after day after day after day.

[jgmp123]

Besides David (their differences are well documented), who does Richard or Shelly attack?

[RichardSimon]

I am the one who does not listen?
You defend an auction house that uses language meant to create confusion and I don't listen? An auction house that proudly uses two COA's in their big auction in NYC,except when one of the TPA's does not think the item is authentic and that info is not revealed to the public. (Jackie Robinson ss ball, look it up).
Shelly has admitted to his mistakes. I have admitted to mistakes.
When will your holy trio of JSA, PSA and Heritage admit to any mistake?

[Forever Young]

Originally Posted by RichardSimon

I am the one who does not listen?
You defend an auction house that uses language meant to create confusion and I don't listen? An auction house that proudly uses two COA's in their big auction in NYC,except when one of the TPA's does not think the item is authentic and that info is not revealed to the public. (Jackie Robinson ss ball, look it up).
Shelly has admitted to his mistakes. I have admitted to mistakes.
When will your holy trio of JSA, PSA and Heritage admit to any mistake?

He just admitted it was a mistake and it would have been corrected and it has.

[JimStinson]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Although I think the term pre-certified implies that someone may have looked at an item, the prefix pre- could be interpreted from a linguistic perspective as simply before. Thus pre-certified linguistically implies before certification, which also implies the item will be looked at some time in the future when it is certified or not.

Similarly if you have a three year old child in pre-k (nursery school), the term pre-K does not imply that the child is qualified for, eligible for or would ever be able to handle the rigors of the kindergarten curriculum.

Thus I do not think technically that pre-certified means anything with respect to the authenticity of an item, good, bad or ugly.

I raise this point not to defend Heritage or anyone else that uses the term pre-certified, just to clarify the actual meaning of the language involved. I am not commenting on intent.

That is an excellent point , from a purely techical point of view "pre" establishes "prior to" , as in pre-kindergarten, pre-teen etc. but it also implies the INEVITABILITY of the later, a pre teen will eventually become a teenager, a pre-K student will eventually become a 1st grader, Unless God forbid they died. It implies inevitability of an outcome.
Now that I've said my 2 cents , it appears I've accidently stumbled into the "Angry heated, Mudslinging" forum by accident. Could someone please direct me to the "Peace, Love and Happiness" forum ?? Thanks
_________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

[RichardSimon]

Originally Posted by JimStinson

That is an excellent point , from a purely techical point of view "pre" establishes "prior to" , as in pre-kindergarten, pre-teen etc. but it also implies the INEVITABILITY of the later, a pre teen will eventually become a teenager, a pre-K student will eventually become a 1st grader, Unless God forbid they died. It implies inevitability of an outcome.
Now that I've said my 2 cents , it appears I've accidently stumbled into the "Angry heated, Mudslinging" forum by accident. Could someone please direct me to the "Peace, Love and Happiness" forum ?? Thanks
_________________________
jim@stinsonsports.com

Yes an excellent point, but you know that pre-certified in this hobby means that a pair of knowledgeable eyes had been focused on it.