It's now official - Mastro trimmed hisT206 Wagner

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bn2cardz

Who advised him? Joe Orlando?

Maybe, and if he did he might be right. I don't condone the fraud with the trimming but it's still the best looking Wags in the hobby. I am still undecided if I think it's value has held. It certainly might have. It's hard to say.....

[Peter_Spaeth]

David Hall is now in an interesting position. He of the magnifying glass.

[Orioles1954]

Best looking? Really? Every time I see that card now I'll think "crimininal", "fraud", "fake" and "trimmed" before "best looking" comes to mind.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Orioles1954

Best looking? Really? Every time I see that card now I'll think "crimininal", "fraud", "fake" and "trimmed" before "best looking" comes to mind.

You are entitled to your opinion but no matter what you say, what I said is true.

[Orioles1954]

Originally Posted by Leon

no matter what you say, what I said is true.

Well, thank you. Whenever I need to know absolute truth, I know who to go to.

[barrysloate]

With each past sale, the new owners were certainly aware of the unconfirmed rumor it was trimmed. And they had the right to reject it as merely speculation.

Now it is no longer a rumor, it's a fact. If it comes up for sale, prospective bidders will know that. Will it affect the value? Perhaps a little, but not a lot. It very well may sell for more. Who knows? That's up to the bidders.

[Jay Wolt]

People who purchase T206 Wagner's for 7 figures are a different breed then the rest of us.
If I spend $100 on a card and its deemed altered it keeps me up at night.
To Mr. Kendrick, its a nice card then brings him notoriety and the cost is pocket change to him.
Hell, he's picked up free agents for several million who's ended up being worthless and released.
Not saying Bill Mastro's trim job is justified or condoned, but Mr. Kendrick may look at the $2+ million he spent differently.
He's got exposure and an iconic card and as Leon states, a great looking one at that.

[David W]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

People who purchase T206 Wagner's for 7 figures are a different breed then the rest of us.
If I spend $100 on a card and its deemed altered it keeps me up at night.
To Mr. Kendrick, its a nice card then brings him notoriety and the cost is pocket change to him.
Hell, he's picked up free agents for several million who's ended up being worthless and released.
Not saying Bill Mastro's trim job is justified or condoned, but Mr. Kendrick may look at the $2+ million he spent differently.
He's got exposure and an iconic card and as Leon states, a great looking one at that.

Yes. Now he has something else to talk about at the Country Club. He already owned the most famous card ever, now he owns the most infamous famous card ever.

[chaddurbin]

Originally Posted by Jay Wolt

People who purchase T206 Wagner's for 7 figures are a different breed then the rest of us.
If I spend $100 on a card and its deemed altered it keeps me up at night.
To Mr. Kendrick, its a nice card then brings him notoriety and the cost is pocket change to him.
Hell, he's picked up free agents for several million who's ended up being worthless and released.
Not saying Bill Mastro's trim job is justified or condoned, but Mr. Kendrick may look at the $2+ million he spent differently.
He's got exposure and an iconic card and as Leon states, a great looking one at that.

agreed...future owners of this card won't be collectors, just like the past owners. value of this card won't suddenly have a big drop. it will still be the highest priced wagner. and if kendrick don't get his price, he'll just keep it for his son to play with.

[gnaz01]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

With each past sale, the new owners were certainly aware of the unconfirmed rumor it was trimmed. And they had the right to reject it as merely speculation.

Now it is no longer a rumor, it's a fact. If it comes up for sale, prospective bidders will know that. Will it affect the value? Perhaps a little, but not a lot. It very well may sell for more. Who knows? That's up to the bidders.

Barry,

I 100% agree with yours and Leon's statement. My thoughts are this: I think the value will remain flat or maybe decline a little IF it is kept in the same PSA holder of a NM-MT 8. We all, I think, should concur that it should reside in a PSA "Authentic" holder and IF that happens (which never will happen, IMO) then the value would drop dramatically.

Greg

[Shoele$$]

Originally Posted by gnaz01

Barry,

I 100% agree with yours and Leon's statement. My thoughts are this: I think the value will remain flat or maybe decline a little IF it is kept in the same PSA holder of a NM-MT 8. We all, I think, should concur that it should reside in a PSA "Authentic" holder and IF that happens (which never will happen, IMO) then the value would drop dramatically.

Greg

That's the whole point right there, it's infamous and controversial because of the story behind the PSA 8 slab that it resides in......change it to the correct "A" slab and the allure will all but disappear.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Shoele$$

That's the whole point right there, it's infamous and controversial because of the story behind the PSA 8 slab that it resides in......change it to the correct "A" slab and the allure will all but disappear.

But as I said several months ago, in a poll, what if (and this won't happen) PSA kept the same grade and flip but put the qualifier (handcut) on it? It would be what it is and still have the grade!! Personally, that is what I think should happen but it's not up to me AND I am in the minority (as usual).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Minority of one i think.

[Blitzu]

That PSA 5 at 2.1 million buy couldn't have come at a better time. Don't they now own the highest legitimate, non altered Wagner now? It's now king of the hill.

That book The Card, really hit the nail in the head. I have a feeling PSA is next....

[SushiX37]

Originally Posted by Leon

But as I said several months ago, in a poll, what if (and this won't happen) PSA kept the same grade and flip but put the qualifier (handcut) on it? It would be what it is and still have the grade!! Personally, that is what I think should happen but it's not up to me AND I am in the minority (as usual).

I couldn't agree more. I seem to remember stories from people who saw this card pre-PSA slab, and commented that it was larger then than it is now. Whose to say it wasn't scrap or handcut originally?

Rich

[travrosty]

Originally Posted by Leon

But as I said several months ago, in a poll, what if (and this won't happen) PSA kept the same grade and flip but put the qualifier (handcut) on it? It would be what it is and still have the grade!! Personally, that is what I think should happen but it's not up to me AND I am in the minority (as usual).

then take the jumbo wagner and make that one an (8) hand cut too, or a 9?. the mc qualifier would even go away. you can't just start doing that and changing the rules because a trimmed card looks good.

everyone would start claiming their card came from a sheet and how do you prove it didn't? how do you prove that the gretzky wagner came from a sheet. prove it, not just conjecture. then the sheet mate plank would get a handcut too. instead, it resides in an A holder (trimmed) and the wagner doesn't? psa had too much to gain with debut card #1.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

With each past sale, the new owners were certainly aware of the unconfirmed rumor it was trimmed. And they had the right to reject it as merely speculation.

Now it is no longer a rumor, it's a fact. If it comes up for sale, prospective bidders will know that. Will it affect the value? Perhaps a little, but not a lot. It very well may sell for more. Who knows? That's up to the bidders.

Well said Barry, everyone who was a potential buyer of this card, is going to research the history on it. I doubt, most likely anyone would throw 2mill on a card, or any item for that matter, without researching it.

[teetwoohsix]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

With each past sale, the new owners were certainly aware of the unconfirmed rumor it was trimmed. And they had the right to reject it as merely speculation.

Now it is no longer a rumor, it's a fact. If it comes up for sale, prospective bidders will know that. Will it affect the value? Perhaps a little, but not a lot. It very well may sell for more. Who knows? That's up to the bidders.

You are right Barry, they had to know about the unconfirmed rumors- but, I'm sure they also had to put at least a little faith behind the grade it was given. Had it not been graded an 8, I highly doubt the card would have sold for as much as it did.

There's no doubt it is a beautiful card. But, I don't think it is any different than any other T206 that's been trimmed; re-holdered with an "A" trimmed. I don't think it would be right to term it "handcut", like a printers scrap card or something.

He claims he trimmed the "sides"? I wish we could get more details. Sounds like it may have been a strip? Or was it trimmed all the way around? If so, maybe a sheet? I hope the judge makes him explain in detail

Sincerely, Clayton

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by Leon

Maybe, and if he did he might be right. I don't condone the fraud with the trimming but it's still the best looking Wags in the hobby. I am still undecided if I think it's value has held. It certainly might have. It's hard to say.....

This certainly isn't any kind of surprise to anyone. The card is in fact the best appearing Wagner by a wide margin, and its mystique won't change at all. I believe most of the owners of the card, if not absolutely all of them, already knew what Mastro recently confirmed. My humble prediction is that it will continue to rise in value as it has habitually done, and will change hands for $50 million or more within a quarter century or so (that's in the vicinity of 12% compounded annually, a rate a top flight collectible is easily capable of in most collectible fields).

Best wishes,

Larry