Joseph M Pankiewicz, you are a disgrace to this hobby!

atx840 · #1 08-27-2013, 10:42 AM

nsaddict · #2 08-27-2013, 10:54 AM

Nice profit for pank...hey buys the 7, resubmits and receives an 8. Same card for sure!

http://tinyurl.com/mqoyxfg

ullmandds · #3 08-27-2013, 10:58 AM

nice comparo Chris!!!!!

the rt border is dramatically thinner!

vintagetoppsguy · #4 08-27-2013, 11:07 AM

I get nervous enough cracking out a card to resubmit for the fear of it coming back a lower grade (or even trimmed). Who would crack out a card worth several hundred dollars, altar it and then try to resubmit it, unless that person already knew that they didn't have anything to worry about - that it would receive a numeric grade? There�s a lot of risk involved there � unless there really is no risk at all.

frankbmd · #5 08-27-2013, 11:12 AM

In my professional opinion this thread gives a whole new meaning to the definition of "Plastic Surgery".

Peter_Spaeth · #6 08-27-2013, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

I get nervous enough cracking out a card to resubmit for the fear of it coming back a lower grade (or even trimmed). Who would crack out a card worth several hundred dollars, altar it and then try to resubmit it, unless that person already knew that they didn't have anything to worry about - that it would receive a numeric grade? There�s a lot of risk involved there � unless there really is no risk at all.

How could you have no risk? Unless you owned the grading service or had an in, I suppose.

botn · #7 08-27-2013, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds

nice comparo Chris!!!!!

the rt border is dramatically thinner!

Indeed so..and the bottom border too. Assuming they are the same cards either someone has the ability to mimic factory cuts or SGC missed the boat. With that much of the card gone I cannot imagine it measures properly. Either way it is way too expensive a card to be in anyone's holder.

I understand the FBI is sitting on bidder records from many of the auction houses. Seems like a fairly easy job for someone to start identifying purchases and consignments and matching up before and after pics. One 40K card does not warrant an investigation but it is pretty easy to see how you can get up in to the millions of dollars of fraud. It has always been my opinion that the amount of money taken from collectors in this manner far exceeds what has been taken via shill bidding.

Here is a side by side pic of the two cards...

4815162342 · #8 08-27-2013, 11:36 AM

So David, do you still say that "anybody that can look at a thread like this and still submit cards to PSA has absolutely no moral conscience"? Or do you now see that SGC is also capable of making mistakes. Good fraudsters seem to be able to take advantage of both companies.

ullmandds · #9 08-27-2013, 11:39 AM

I'm just wondering if this Joey P...who supposedly "used" to work for SGC...has an inside connection there...who is upgrading these submissions. So mistakes weren't/arent bring made...maybe this is intentional?

conor912 · #10 08-27-2013, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4815162342

So David, do you still say that "anybody that can look at a thread like this and still submit cards to PSA has absolutely no moral conscience"? Or do you now see that SGC is also capable of making mistakes. Good fraudsters seem to be able to take advantage of both companies.

It does beg the question, why the crossover if PSA brings consistently higher sale prices? Assuming this card had an equal chance of making it past either company, why go to SGC and not back to PSA?

vintagetoppsguy · #11 08-27-2013, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4815162342

So David, do you still say that "anybody that can look at a thread like this and still submit cards to PSA has absolutely no moral conscience"? Or do you now see that SGC is also capable of making mistakes. Good fraudsters seem to be able to take advantage of both companies.

Daryl,

I'm not so sure they're mistakes. To answer your question very honestly, I will have to strongly consider if I ever submit another card to any grading company. My last SGC submission consisted of about 15 E92 Dockmans. 2 came back as EOT (which I'm pretty they're not), one came back as minimum size requirement not met and another was a PSA 4 that would not cross over. So, I'm led to believe they can detect trimming on $50 E92 common, but they can't detect trimming on a $25K+ Gehrig? Horse crap! Those two Gehrigs are definitely the same card and it has definitely been trimmed.

David

Edited to add a side-by-side scan of the back of the Gehrigs. I circled all the print marks on the PSA card and they are the same on the SGC card. The SGC was scanned with brighter settings, but still the same card, only TRIMMED.

OFF CENTER TRADING · #12 08-27-2013, 12:21 PM

This thread finally convinced me to become a member of the Forum.

Thanks for posting. Keep up the good work.

Robert L Rumcik
o.c.trading

Peter_Spaeth · #13 08-27-2013, 12:22 PM

A well-centered 6 (or raw EX MT) card is the ideal purchase for a card doctor.

thehoodedcoder · #14 08-27-2013, 02:16 PM

Bring on the hammer.

kevin

WhenItWasAHobby · #15 08-27-2013, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by atx840

That's a terrific before and after comparison! Thanks for posting that.

Has the SGC Gehrig been sold? If so, that promises be a rather stiff buy-back if the buyer is aware of the problem and pursues that route. One would think that losing $10K or $15K on a card should hopefully change the way the grading company screens cards and screens submitters.

Peter_Spaeth · #16 08-27-2013, 12:52 PM

Dan, yours for the asking.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=321179871436

Leon · #17 08-27-2013, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dan, yours for the asking.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=321179871436

I am starting to more understand why some companies might not want to advertise where many of their customers are (here).

#18 08-27-2013, 12:58 PM

Has anyone contacted the seller gregbussineau about the SGC version being offered?

D.P.Johnson · #19 08-27-2013, 01:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Has anyone contacted the seller gregbussineau about the SGC version being offered?

Also, does anyone know who the original purchaser of the PSA card was???

Peter_Spaeth · #20 08-27-2013, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson

Also, does anyone know who the original purchaser of the PSA card was???

Last I checked auction houses don't tell who won their cards.

D.P.Johnson · #21 08-27-2013, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Last I checked auction houses don't tell who won their cards.

I was able to figure out who won the other altered Gehrigs...

Peter_Spaeth · #22 08-27-2013, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Has anyone contacted the seller gregbussineau about the SGC version being offered?

Greg has been in the card business since the 80s, I believe. I am sure he can form his own judgments.

D.P.Johnson · #23 08-27-2013, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Greg has been in the card business since the 80s, I believe. I am sure he can form his own judgments.

I guess now would be a good time for Greg to accept a low-ball offer on the card...I mean, I hope he wouldn't knowlingly sell an altered item on ebay...

Cardboard Junkie · #24 08-27-2013, 01:50 PM

40K for a trimmed iron horse........2.8 mil for a trimmed wagz.....I just can't believe the tpg's don't KNOW these cards are trimmed! There is something fishy in Denmark! Dave. ps The silence of the tpg's and of certain members here is deafening, and speaks volumes.

T206Collector · #25 08-27-2013, 01:55 PM

Why does the card look more heavily cut on the back of the "flashing" Gehrigs than the front? It's because the back scan of the SGC version is slightly smaller than the back scan of the PSA version. That's why the lettering moves a little, too.

While I find all of the evidence of cleaning/brightening persuasive, let's be a little cautious about relying on two scans of purportedly the same card under different conditions.

My guess is that SGC did not miss an obvious trim on the Gehrig. For instance, the SGC insert appears to fit snugly -- more so than the PSA holder does.

I took the same back scan of the SGC Gehrig, and then magnified one slightly below. Note how the eye picks up the difference in the bottom border much more easily than anything else.

#26 08-27-2013, 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by D.P.Johnson

I guess now would be a good time for Greg to accept a low-ball offer on the card...I mean, I hope he wouldn't knowlingly sell an altered item on ebay...

That was kind of what I was getting at.

atx840 · #27 08-27-2013, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gobucsmagic74

Has anyone contacted the seller gregbussineau about the SGC version being offered?

Yes.

Makes me re-think this guy.

WhenItWasAHobby · #28 08-27-2013, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Dan, yours for the asking.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=321179871436

Thanks for the info Peter.

Actually someone just informed me that:

Sold at

Memorylane (id #20470) 5/6/11..

then sold Goodwinandco (id #23561) 6/21/12 for $7,299.46.

What's still not known is who was the buyer from Goodwin and submitter to SGC since it's possible that its currently a consignment item.

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