PSA-A Cautionary Tale!

[glchen]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

... And as far as threatening to sue the company, you can not say that as if it were a fact because you (or I) don't know that.

David, if you read Matt's initial post in this thread, Matt himself said he did tell Joe that he was going to talk to a lawyer about this.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Originally Posted by glchen

David, if you read Matt's initial post in this thread, Matt himself said he did tell Joe that he was going to talk to a lawyer about this.

Talking to a lawyer and threatening to sue are two different things. And just to clarify, here's what Matt actually wrote:

This is not a business to me, its a hobby and I collect high end cards that I can't go out and just replace. Send me back my cards immediately, and after I speak with my council, I will give you a number on the Hank Aaron card.

I knew exactly what I was saying when I made the comment to Joe about speaking with my council, and I also knew exactly how he would take my comment. Never was I intending to contact my lawyer over a baseball card. I really just wanted to speak with a couple people I know in the hobby that I trust, one of which was my buddy that had the same thing happen to.

I took Matt's comment as if his council were the couple of people that he knew in the hobby that had a similar experience. If he said legal council, then that would be different.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Talking to a lawyer and threatening to sue are two different things. And just to clarify, here's what Matt actually wrote:

This is not a business to me, its a hobby and I collect high end cards that I can't go out and just replace. Send me back my cards immediately, and after I speak with my council, I will give you a number on the Hank Aaron card.

I knew exactly what I was saying when I made the comment to Joe about speaking with my council, and I also knew exactly how he would take my comment. Never was I intending to contact my lawyer over a baseball card. I really just wanted to speak with a couple people I know in the hobby that I trust, one of which was my buddy that had the same thing happen to.

I took Matt's comment as if his council were the couple of people that he knew in the hobby that had a similar experience. If he said legal council, then that would be different.

Any business owner would take "Send me back my cards immediately, and after I speak with my council, I will give you a number on the Hank Aaron card." as a threat. You know this. Whether the word "council" was meant to refer to his lawyer or group of friends is irrelevant. If a customer said this to me I would have acted exactly the same. Granted, I never would have let it get to this point, but that is also irrelevant.

But, wait a minute, what are we arguing again?

I think Joe acted like a man protecting his business and I think Matt acted like a man who just had his irreplaceable collectable destroyed. The whole situation is a shame.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

I think Joe acted like a man protecting his business and I think Matt acted like a man who just had his irreplaceable collectable destroyed. The whole situation is a shame.

LOL comeon. Joe's "business" is part of a public company. Do you think its board of directors or shareholders wouldn't be pissed as to how he handled the situation? I have empathy for the guy here to a point and I have no doubt he tires of being abused for PSA's mistakes but that's kind of the cost of doing business and having his job. Less paranoia, less crazy behavior, more transparency. I think Joe would be surprised that people would be more understanding with PSA if such occurred. And it doesn't hep his company's credibility by the way when it comes out in the press that they slabbed an altered Wagner and claimed publicly for years that it never occurred.

[T206Collector]

I have never understood why collectors rely on TPG for anything other than an objective opinion from a source other than a dealer who likes to upgrade his cards in the description.

[jhs5120]

Originally Posted by calvindog

LOL comeon. Joe's "business" is part of a public company. Do you think its board of directors or shareholders wouldn't be pissed as to how he handled the situation? I have empathy for the guy here to a point and I have no doubt he tires of being abused for PSA's mistakes but that's kind of the cost of doing business and having his job. Less paranoia, less crazy behavior, more transparency. I think Joe would be surprised that people would be more understanding with PSA if such occurred. And it doesn't hep his company's credibility by the way when it comes out in the press that they slabbed an altered Wagner and claimed publicly for years that it never occurred.

He is offering you his phone number and a personal conversation, how much more transparent do you need?

Personally, I think the board of directors could care less whether or not Matt was banned from the CU forum.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

He is offering you his phone number and a personal conversation, how much more transparent do you need?

Personally, I think the board of directors could care less whether or not Matt was banned from the CU forum.

They should...it appears he spends a lot of money on high end PSA cards. Or at least he used to.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by jhs5120

Personally, I think the board of directors could care less whether or not Matt was banned from the CU forum.

Yeah, that's what I was referring to -- that the board of directors would be worried about Matt, not how he handles customers who were damaged by PSA and the resultant negative publicity.

[CMIZ5290]

While this is a situation that I am torn between, I would like to offer an apology for anything that was said by me deemed offensive. I do think, however, some of the comments I made were very much appropriate, and I do think some of the things said to me were out of line. As long as I have been a member here, there has been a tremendous amount of support for SGC, and a miniscule amount for PSA. I have never understood that, nor will I ever. I know Joe Orlando well and his business model, but obviously, it is shared by an extremely low percentage of Net54 members... It's unfortunate, but sometimes in the heat of the battle, people say things to people that they regret. Maybe it's even people that they have done alot of business with, regardless, I apologize.....Please, after this post, limit the witch hunts and take it for what it is.....

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by calvindog

LOL comeon. Joe's "business" is part of a public company. Do you think its board of directors or shareholders wouldn't be pissed as to how he handled the situation? I have empathy for the guy here to a point and I have no doubt he tires of being abused for PSA's mistakes but that's kind of the cost of doing business and having his job. Less paranoia, less crazy behavior, more transparency. I think Joe would be surprised that people would be more understanding with PSA if such occurred. And it doesn't hep his company's credibility by the way when it comes out in the press that they slabbed an altered Wagner and claimed publicly for years that it never occurred.

yeah , when will we hear anything from Orlando regarding the Wagner card !

[MBMiller25]

Where has Matt been since the original post?? Has anyone noticed that he has been eerily quiet since the opening statement?? I'm guessing he is reading this thread still?

I am following the thread Bobby, but don't have anything else to add. I said before in my second follow-up post that I don't mind any negativity directed at me. That's what makes America such a great place, we can all have an opinion, and aren't forced to agree with each other. I've enjoyed reading this thread and seeing what everyone has to say.

[ullmandds]

"yeah , when will we hear anything from Orlando regarding the Wagner card !"

I don't think Joe was with PSA when this occurred...was he? Although either way I'm sure he knows what happened.

[nolemmings]

Actually, whether Matt intended or not, he chose the correct word in saying he wanted to speak with his council, i.e. a group of people, rather than his counsel, i.e. his attorney. Inasmuch as this was a phone conversation, however, I doubt the enunciation was so distinguishable.