Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

[joeadcock]

Hey Barry

Lots opinions all over the place

[Jantz]

I know for a fact that one of these T206s below was attached in a scrapbook and took a bath in 2009.

For the record, I knew the T206 was removed from a scrapbook and who I was buying it from.

Anyone want to take a guess which T206 went for a swim?

Jantz

[smokelessjoe]

I can see that Wonka is hung up on Brite White Borders... Ok Wonka, lets say you have a card that already has Brite White Borders but also has a streak of something running horizontally across the card and unfortunately right across the players face - you cannot tell me for a fact that you know what soaking this card in water or anything else is going to do... Would you have a problem if using the water removed all the evidence of the stain? But do not forget this card has Brite White Borders before and after the soak - no change in that regard.

I see your stance (wonka) as a double standard - its convenient for you as water is something you have dealt with. This reminds of some arguments that my wife will often pose in that "I do not do it anywhere near as much as she does".

I think you are telling me as well, that you would be ok with Dick Towles process as long as the stain removal process he uses left some evidence of the stain? Is this correct?

John,
Nothing personal here - like I said earlier its an interesting subject to me.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by smokelessjoe

I can see that Wonka is hung up on Brite White Borders... Ok Wonka, lets say you have a card that already has Brite White Borders but also has a streak of something running horizontally across the card and unfortunately right across the players face - you cannot tell me for a fact that you know what soaking this card in water or anything else is going to do... Would you have a problem if using the water removed all the evidence of the stain? But do not forget this card has Brite White Borders before and after the soak - no change in that regard.

I see your stance (wonka) as a double standard - its convenient for you as water is something you have dealt with. This reminds of some arguments that my wife will often pose in that "I do not do it anywhere near as much as she does".

I think you are telling me as well, that you would be ok with Dick Towles process as long as the stain removal process he uses left some evidence of the stain? Is this correct?

John,
Nothing personal here - like I said earlier its an interesting subject to me.

Shawn you are just grasping at odd hypotheticals to try and make soaking a card off a scrap book page in the same hemisphere as Dick’s work of cleaning and crease pressing. Not sure what else I can say. I will say it once again perhaps you will be the person who addresses this and doesn’t go back to trying to split hairs to make a case. Or go back to posting chemistry debates on H2O etc.

You tell me what bowl of warm water removes stains from Planks, brightens the entire card and removes most all traces of toning and age? Also tell me if it’s not a big deal why did the auction house try and hide this?



If not wanting to be lied to and be sold doctored up cards that had wax, tape stains and creases that now are sent in to Dick under secrecy and then sold to collectors with no disclosure at a huge profit makes me a hypocrite guilty as charged.

Cheers,

John

[smokelessjoe]

John,

I do not care for the Plank at all... Nor I do not care for your removed cards out of scrapbooks... Yes I am throwing out hypotheticals but they are not unreasonable situations...

I do not like nor do I buy into the "oh water.... its so gentle... I think i'll just toss a couple of cards in a bowl... because, well just because". If you think people remove or restore or clean-up cards to the point that one barely can tell the difference before & after the water soak your just fooling yourself. We have seen examples here on the board where people made huge differences in the before & after with just water. And of course money is never the motivator when water is used right?

You tell me how you know what in the world a bowl of warm water would remove from a card? By the way, I think apparently you would be amazed at what my mother can do to stains etc. with just warm water.

Oh & I may be splitting hairs but I have not been posting chemistry debates as you say? - you can go back to searching your desktop cache of funny pictures you swiped from the Internet etc. in hopes that you find something that fits what you are not able to verbalize....

[Peter_Spaeth]

If Towle's services are so kosher, why don't people disclose them as an affirmative selling point?

When's the last time anyone saw a card for sale saying "appearance much improved after cleaning by Dick Towle"?

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by smokelessjoe

John,
I do not like nor do I buy into the "oh water.... its so gentle... I think i'll just toss a couple of cards in a bowl... because, well just because". If you think people remove or restore or clean-up cards to the point that one barely can tell the difference before & after the water soak your just fooling yourself. We have seen examples here on the board where people made huge differences in the before & after with just water. And of course money is never the motivator when water is used right?

Shawn, it's not "just because" - it's to remove stuff as unobtrusively as possible. And in general, water does not usually have a huge effect on 'before and after', unless the card had a lot of water-soluble glued on paper on the back. People who have soaked with water understand this and have explained it.

The only reason you and others don't seem to understand it, is possibly because you've never done it. Fair enough, but I can promise you - I'm not lying when I tell you what soaking can or cannot do, based on my own personal experience.

I cannot tell you about chemicals, and because of this, I think their use should be disclosed, especially for examples like the Plank - if for no other reason, than because when the buyer of the cleaned card attempts to trade or re-sell, he's likely to have to answer questions if he encounters someone with 'before' pics, and he was unaware that a cleaning had taken place. The impact on value could be very substantial.

[smokelessjoe]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Shawn, it's not "just because" - it's to remove stuff as unobtrusively as possible. And in general, water does not usually have a huge effect on 'before and after', unless the card had a lot of water-soluble glued on paper on the back. People who have soaked with water understand this and have explained it.

The only reason you and others don't seem to understand it, is possibly because you've never done it. Fair enough, but I can promise you - I'm not lying when I tell you what soaking can or cannot do, based on my own personal experience.

I cannot tell you about chemicals, and because of this, I think their use should be disclosed, especially for examples like the Plank - if for no other reason, than because when the buyer of the cleaned card attempts to trade or re-sell, he's likely to have to answer questions if he encounters someone with 'before' pics, and he was unaware that a cleaning had taken place. The impact on value could be very substantial.

Hi Scott,

Hope you are doing well.

I know its not "just because", I was being facetious in making that comment. Your point is partly what I was trying to say - that is people are not just throwing cards into a bowl "just because" but are actually trying to improve the card / photo whichever... But I do not buy that using water is just this hapless innocent thing with no other motive. The use of water can greatly increase the value of a card or a photo. I have seen it before my very eyes on this forum. And I think you know this is possible as well.

On a side note: your response to somebody else post about the effects a "slab" can have on a card does concern me... I had not thought about it... I used to run track - I started when I was 5 years old - back then you would get ribbons and medals for 1st - 6th place - The Medals would come in these little plastic cases with a piece of black foam to cushion the medal. I collected things even at that early of an age of which included coins - Well I had what I thought was a great Idea and used those little plastic cases to store my prized coins in - Over the years I would randomly admire them (still in the case) until flash forward 35 years - I decide to take the coins out so I could look at the other side - low & behold the coins are stuck to the foam and have actually had a chemical reaction (to most but not all) that has eaten away at the metal!!!! Here I thought I was such a smart kid and now the coins are ruined....

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by smokelessjoe

John,

I do not care for the Plank at all... Nor I do not care for your removed cards out of scrapbooks... Yes I am throwing out hypotheticals but they are not unreasonable situations...

I do not like nor do I buy into the "oh water.... its so gentle... I think i'll just toss a couple of cards in a bowl... because, well just because". If you think people remove or restore or clean-up cards to the point that one barely can tell the difference before & after the water soak your just fooling yourself. We have seen examples here on the board where people made huge differences in the before & after with just water. And of course money is never the motivator when water is used right?

You tell me how you know what in the world a bowl of warm water would remove from a card? By the way, I think apparently you would be amazed at what my mother can do to stains etc. with just warm water.

Oh & I may be splitting hairs but I have not been posting chemistry debates as you say? - you can go back to searching your desktop cache of funny pictures you swiped from the Internet etc. in hopes that you find something that fits what you are not able to verbalize....

LOL, nothing personal huh? I post pictures because I find it enjoyable. Yes some pictures come from the internet I use the internet sometimes when I visit net54.com. As for not being able to verbalize I think I’ve been pretty clear on my stance. It’s you that keeps wanting to convert me to your thinking or convince me that work like the above is no different than removing a $5 card from a scrapbook and then placing that stained clearly removed card in a binder.

If what was done by Dick and others that results in cards just like the Plank posted is no big deal in our hobby. Why asked now many times is it not mentioned with pride at the time of sale and hidden from TPGs?

Also if your mom can get work like the Plank done with just warm water then Dick should hang up his “towle”.

John

[smokelessjoe]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

LOL, nothing personal huh? I post pictures because I find it enjoyable. Yes some pictures come from the internet I use the internet sometimes when I visit net54.com. As for not being able to verbalize I think I’ve been pretty clear on my stance. It’s you that keeps wanting to convert me to your thinking or convince me that work like the above is no different than removing a $5 card from a scrapbook and then placing that stained clearly removed card in a binder.

If what was done by Dick and others that results in cards just like the Plank posted is no big deal in our hobby. Why asked now many times is it not mentioned with pride at the time of sale and hidden from TPGs?

Also if your mom can get work like the Plank done with just warm water then Dick should hang up his “towle”.

John

John,

It is nothing personal, at least to me - You took a little jab at me so I threw one back. I mean no harm and I am waving the white flag - My apologies for taking it to far.

[4815162342]

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Shawn you are just grasping at odd hypotheticals to try and make soaking a card off a scrap book page in the same hemisphere as Dick’s work of cleaning and crease pressing. Not sure what else I can say. I will say it once again perhaps you will be the person who addresses this and doesn’t go back to trying to split hairs to make a case. Or go back to posting chemistry debates on H2O etc.

You tell me what bowl of warm water removes stains from Planks, brightens the entire card and removes most all traces of toning and age? Also tell me if it’s not a big deal why did the auction house try and hide this?



If not wanting to be lied to and be sold doctored up cards that had wax, tape stains and creases that now are sent in to Dick under secrecy and then sold to collectors with no disclosure at a huge profit makes me a hypocrite guilty as charged.

Cheers,

John

John, I miss that show!

[Edward]

Is vitamin water okay?

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Originally Posted by Edward

Is vitamin water okay?

I believe it will destroy the cards but will effectively replace their electrolytes.