Gone with the stain. Dick Towle

ElCabron · #1 03-28-2014, 04:07 PM

There is a common sense factor that is severely lacking in many of these posts. As Leon said, in the real world, water is not considered a chemical.

If you accidentally spill water on a card, should it then be considered altered? If you accidentally get a speck of ketchup on a card, do you have to leave it there, or can you wipe it off? If you wipe it off, should the card now be considered altered? Also, stop eating and drinking around your cards.

For me, it's pretty simple. Water is fine. Chemicals are not. I don't think I'm in the minority on that.

I don't have a degree in chemistry, but I can pretty much guarantee I've soaked more cards than anyone who does. So which background is more relevant to this discussion? The theoretical one, or the practical one? I don't need someone else to tell me what they think happens to cards when they're soaked. At least when they're soaked in water. I know what happens. Stains don't magically disappear in water, btw.

How many here are on board with the original poster and think his practices are okay? I'm a strong vote in the "no freaking way" column.

-Ryan

bobbyw8469 · #2 03-28-2014, 04:13 PM

Addition by subtraction. He isn't adding anything. He is taking away stuff that shouldn't be there in the first place. If someone from the 30's put rubber cement on the back of a card to post it in an album, I don't see nothing wrong with removal of the glue. He isn't filling holes, coloring borders,etc. He is removing glues and stains that shouldn't be on the card in the first place. I am sure I am in the minority here.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 03-28-2014, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobbyw8469

Addition by subtraction. He isn't adding anything. He is taking away stuff that shouldn't be there in the first place. If someone from the 30's put rubber cement on the back of a card to post it in an album, I don't see nothing wrong with removal of the glue. He isn't filling holes, coloring borders,etc. He is removing glues and stains that shouldn't be on the card in the first place. I am sure I am in the minority here.

So will you disclose which cards of yours have been worked on by him?

ullmandds · #4 03-28-2014, 04:41 PM

i don't think this debate will ever be settled...this thread may even de-throne the monster # thread...what a sad day in mud-ville that'd be!

frankbmd · #5 03-28-2014, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ullmandds

i don't think this debate will ever be settled...this thread may even de-throne the monster # thread...what a sad day in mud-ville that'd be!

Not a chance!!!

RGold · #6 03-28-2014, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Not a chance!!!

Hey Frank, don't forget to fill out your bracket.

Peter_Spaeth · #7 03-28-2014, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RGold

Hey Frank, don't forget to fill out your bracket.

He would still finish last.

frankbmd · #8 03-28-2014, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RGold

Hey Frank, don't forget to fill out your bracket.

I'm almost finished, Ron. When is the deadline?

vintagetoppsguy · #9 03-28-2014, 05:51 PM

Let's say you're renting a house. You spill a bottle of wine on the carpet. You pay a professional carpet cleaning service to clean it because you don't want to loose your $2K deposit. The carpet cleaning service removes the stain and makes the rest of the carpet look like new. No one could ever tell a bottle of wine had been spilt. When it comes time to vacate the house, do you tell your landlord? For what? Does he even care if it's something he can't see? I keep going back to the same old point. If there is no evidence, why does it matter?

If having a stain removed from a card lowered the value of a card, I could certainly understand disclosing it. That would be common sense. However I don't think that it does - especially if it's graded after the stain is removed. Last time I looked in the SMR, there wasn't a pricing category for graded cards that have had a stained removed.

To answer a question John (Wonka) asked me earlier in this thread, yes, I do believe creases that are removed from a card should be disclosed. There's a huge difference and let me explain. It's been proven that creases can sometimes come back. The new owner of the card should know that a crease has been removed so he is aware of the possibility of the crease returning. However, there is no evidence that the stain removal process leaves any long term effects. None! Again, huge difference. And if at some point it can be proven that removing a stain can show long term effects, I would certainly change my stance. But, for now, that's how I feel.

I Only Smoke 4 the Cards · #10 03-28-2014, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

Let's say you're renting a house. You spill a bottle of wine on the carpet. You pay a professional carpet cleaning service to clean it because you don't want to loose your $2K deposit. The carpet cleaning service removes the stain and makes the rest of the carpet look like new. No one could ever tell a bottle of wine had been spilt. When it comes time to vacate the house, do you tell your landlord? For what? Does he even care if it's something he can't see? I keep going back to the same old point. If there is no evidence, why does it matter?

If having a stain removed from a card lowered the value of a card, I could certainly understand disclosing it. That would be common sense. However I don't think that it does - especially if it's graded after the stain is removed. Last time I looked in the SMR, there wasn't a pricing category for graded cards that have had a stained removed.

To answer a question John (Wonka) asked me earlier in this thread, yes, I do believe creases that are removed from a card should be disclosed. There's a huge difference and let me explain. It's been proven that creases can sometimes come back. The new owner of the card should know that a crease has been removed so he is aware of the possibility of the crease returning. However, there is no evidence that the stain removal process leaves any long term effects. None! Again, huge difference. And if at some point it can be proven that removing a stain can show long term effects, I would certainly change my stance. But, for now, that's how I feel.

If I was trading or selling my carpet as a collectible I would disclose.

Runscott · #11 03-28-2014, 06:14 PM

Ryan, as you can see from posts subsequent to yours, common sense is never going to prevail in this hobby.

vintagetoppsguy · #12 03-28-2014, 06:35 PM

One thing that always will prevail in this hobby are those who want to impose their own opinions, morals and ethics on others and make condescending remarks if you don't agree with them.

bobbyw8469 · #13 03-28-2014, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

One thing that always will prevail in this hobby are those who want to impose their own opinions, morals and ethics on others and make condescending remarks if you don't agree with them.

+1 . . . . too many people living in glass houses trying to throw stones!

I Only Smoke 4 the Cards · #14 03-28-2014, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

One thing that always will prevail in this hobby are those who want to impose their own opinions, morals and ethics on others and make condescending remarks if you don't agree with them.

The gist seems to be that people have their own ethics and would prefer that those be honored by disclosure. I haven't heard anyone say you can't soak or clean a card. Instead people are saying overwhelmingly that it should be disclosed upon sale.

Runscott · #15 03-28-2014, 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

One thing that always will prevail in this hobby are those who want to impose their own opinions, morals and ethics on others and make condescending remarks if you don't agree with them.

That's all true, but we like you anyway.

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