Thoughts on the National...

GKreindler · #1 06-26-2014, 09:20 PM

Hey Adam,

Thanks so much for your insight.

I think that for the most part, you're right. One of the things I deal with constantly is that if a collector has, say, $10,000, is he/she going to buy one of my paintings, or maybe a game-used Campanella bat? Or maybe a really nice high-grade T206 HoFer? I expect to lose that battle nine times out of ten. Actually, more like 19 out of 20. And that's totally cool and understandable. I guess in the end, it really just takes the right kind of person, and then I have to remind myself that not everyone is that right person. And again, I don't mean to insult anyone or criticize - it's just all important stuff that I need to know about my audience, I guess.

And I VERY much hope that you'll be able to see my stuff in person someday, too. Dean has been talking about setting up next year for sure...but he's also been saying that for a few years now, too.

Booooo.

Thanks again for responding.

Graig

whodey14 · #2 06-26-2014, 09:28 PM

Graig,

Was trying to not put a price on your full scale paintings, was unaware if they were $1,500, $15,000 or $150,000 haha. However using your number of $10,000 a guy who is a card/memorabilia collector on a $10k budget is like you said buying that iconic gamer, card, signature ect. It will take the guy that has everything else or big pockets and a $100k budget for the weekend to buy a $10k painting on a whim. One other thing to keep in mind is it sounds like your full scale paintings are quite large, a card can be put in a box and stored in a very small space where as your paintings take a large financial and space commitment. Hope I have positively influenced you to come to the national! Haha!

-Adam

GKreindler · #3 06-26-2014, 09:32 PM

Adam,

Trust me, you didn't need to influence me!

Graig

YankeeFan · #4 06-26-2014, 10:00 PM

Graig -

I don't know if the rules of the National would allow it, but what if you ran one or more raffles, like the one done here on N54 recently, while there?

I'm thinking something like $5 or $10 a chance, with a limited number of tickets sold. The prize could be a choice of one of those $599 paintings you mentioned. As you pointed out, the number of people who could or would make a $600 purchase is limited. But everyone there has $5 - $10 bucks to spare.

Depending on the price per ticket you could pick a winner after every 60 or 120 tickets sold, for example. There's a chance you could "sell" a few of those paintings each day that way.

You could also do a "larger" raffle, just like the one done here. $20 per entry and the winner gets a "painted to order" 16 x 20.

I'm sure you and Dean can come up with other workable variations.

thecatspajamas · #5 06-26-2014, 10:41 PM

Not speaking from my own experience, but one guy that I know who sets up at the National every year does so more for making contacts and getting leads than for trying to realize sales. He deals primarily in game-used items, and will take some pretty high-end stuff for show, but doesn't necessarily expect to actually sell much at the show. I would think your paintings would be the same way, in that you might not sell many (or any) large pieces at the show, but through lots of hand-shaking and pressing the flesh, would expect to come away with some commissions or at least having made contacts that would yield commissions down the road. As far as the larger pieces go, I really don't think you or Dean should be expecting spur-of-the-moment purchases, as to me, that sort of purchase requires a bit more planning and forethought, not just because of the $ involved, but also because the personal connection with the subject and involvement in its selection seems to be a much more integral part of the process.

On the other hand, if you're looking for something to specifically fund the trip and make it immediately pay for itself, I would think that smaller pieces or something like the forthcoming book (*ahem* any updates there?) would be ideal for bringing to the National as those would fall closer to the spur-of-the-moment purchase category. They would also be much easier for buyers to transport back home than the larger pieces.

That's my 2 cents anyway. (And glancing back at the thread, I see that I'd better go ahead and post this before EVERYTHING gets ~~restated~~ pre-stated in more eloquent fashion

)

OT question: What is that little standee/statue thing on the table in the shot from 5 years ago? It looks a lot like the things George Burke used to make for players occasionally (I know, I know, it's the one thing in the photo that is NOT an awesome Kreindler painting, and I'm sure many fists are shaking with utterances of "If he mentions George Burke one more time...")

parker1b2 · #6 06-26-2014, 10:52 PM

I agree with most of what everyone is saying. I think getting people to see your paintings in person would generate sales down the road.

Last year me and a few buddies went to a wine festival where they had various wineries and vendors set up. This one guy had very high end wine themed furniture, wine racks etc. It was a 3 day festival and we were there late day two. We were talking to the guy and he said he didn't make any sales, but a lot of interest and contacts. We took his, card and a few months later my friend made a large purchase from the guy for his backyard. My friend probably would never have sought out that type of furniture, and was not going to make a purchase like that at the festival, but by seeing it in person, he decided to buy it later on.

Bicem · #7 06-26-2014, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by parker1b2

I think getting people to see your paintings in person would generate sales down the road.

This. The marketing and creating awareness of your work to the perfect target audience I would think would be worth the price of the trip (even if you were to not actually sell a single piece at the show).

I for one fell in love with your work only after seeing David's Smokey Joe in person at one of the Nationals.

Kawika · #8 06-26-2014, 11:41 PM

Graig: Five years ago you were just bursting on the scene. Your amazingness hadn't sunk in yet. At the best of times it's a lot to expect the average show attendee to buy a 5 or 10 $K painting on impulse so it's no wonder you didn't have great sales. But the exposure to your works and the opportunity for folks to meet the artist has got to be a positive even if you don't sell many paintings. Anybody who hasn't seen your works in person is missing the better part of the experience - I just look up from my keyboard and Smokey Joe Wood is looking back at me and I am blown away every time. And you can remind Dean that the Cobb Sliding piece did sell as a result of the Cleveland National. I wasn't there but when I saw it on a post about the show I jumped on it. As for the small studies, I understand that you don't want to be a starving artist, and Dean doesn't want to be a starving agent, but to me it just cheapens things a little bit. Keep on painting masterpieces and leave the tchotchkes to Dick Perez.

Leon · #9 06-27-2014, 12:14 AM

That is a great painting!!

timzcardz · #10 06-27-2014, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prestigecollectibles

I first met Graig at the National in Cleveland and although I did not purchase anything at the show I am proud to currently own three paintings and a few studies. Having seen his work in person made it easy for me to make future purchases.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawika

And you can remind Dean that the Cobb Sliding piece did sell as a result of the Cleveland National. I wasn't there but when I saw it on a post about the show I jumped on it.

I don't know what more could be said. It's all about targeted exposure. The direct/indirect benefit from that exposure is difficult to quantify.

A was mentioned elsewhere here, the coffee table type book that you have mentioned previously would be an ideal quick sale at The National. Autographed and personalized to collectors would be provide incredible targeted exposure. How many fellow collectors would the books sold be seen by? How many commissions would it lead to?

There are sales, and then there's marketing. For you, I would think that The National would be more about marketing . . . and marketing is about future sales.

Runscott · #11 06-27-2014, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawika

As for the small studies, I understand that you don't want to be a starving artist, and Dean doesn't want to be a starving agent, but to me it just cheapens things a little bit. Keep on painting masterpieces and leave the tchotchkes to Dick Perez.

David, your comparison to Perez' work is completely invalid - Graig's small studies are much better quality than anything Dick Perez does, and there is nothing cheap about them.

Lordstan · #12 06-26-2014, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKreindler

Hey Adam,

Thanks so much for your insight.

I think that for the most part, you're right. One of the things I deal with constantly is that if a collector has, say, $10,000, is he/she going to buy one of my paintings, or maybe a game-used Campanella bat? Or maybe a really nice high-grade T206 HoFer? I expect to lose that battle nine times out of ten. Actually, more like 19 out of 20. And that's totally cool and understandable. I guess in the end, it really just takes the right kind of person, and then I have to remind myself that not everyone is that right person. And again, I don't mean to insult anyone or criticize - it's just all important stuff that I need to know about my audience, I guess.

And I VERY much hope that you'll be able to see my stuff in person someday, too. Dean has been talking about setting up next year for sure...but he's also been saying that for a few years now, too.

Booooo.

Thanks again for responding.

Graig

Graig,
I don't think it's so much the "right type" of person, but the right setting. If I come to a National having saved up to buy a Gehrig autographed photo, the probability is that I would not scrap my plan for a spur of the moment purchase. On the other hand, if I came in with the same amount, with no set plan, just looking to buy whatever strikes my fancy, then your paintings, very definitely, wind up on my short list of contenders.
I don't think it's as simple as the people want the card or bat more, I think it's that people aren't likely to be thinking about buying a painting when they are planning/budgeting for the national.
Mark

prestigecollectibles · #13 06-26-2014, 10:17 PM

I first met Graig at the National in Cleveland and although I did not purchase anything at the show I am proud to currently own three paintings and a few studies. Having seen his work in person made it easy for me to make future purchases. Below is a painting of Japanese Hall of Famer Eiji Sawamura he did for me.

MGHPro · #14 06-26-2014, 10:20 PM

Graig
Have you considered selling giclees or limited edition prints or lithos ? I would prefer to a have a larger piece that could be a focal point vs a small original .. The studies are great but the details in your larger pieces are awesome .
Matt

Deertick · #15 06-26-2014, 10:41 PM

Graig,
I agree with some of the other comments. I do think that is a combination of price point and desire, with the latter being more relevant. HOWEVER, I think the exposure acts as targeted advertising. I have been to several Nationals and many large regionals and each time I went with a budget and a wantlist. That is not to say I haven't purchased some things way off of my radar going in, but those items were in the minority. But the most important aspect that I think relates to you and your (awesome!) work is I have seen items and made the purchases at a later date from vendors that I have met there that otherwise I would have never been exposed to (pre-internet).
While we at Net54 are all familiar (and covetous) of your pieces, someone viewing them for the first time may take a little time to justify/decide/budget for their purchase. This obviously doesn't bode well for the balance book at the end of the National, but I believe may pay off in spades for the future.

edited to add: What Scott said.

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