OT: Trout vs. Mantle

ls7plus · #1 09-04-2014, 05:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

Larry, watching all the sales of modern cards at nearby booths in Cleveland this year, I would love to get in on that money. But trying to figure out the logic behind these prices is so much more difficult than pre-war. I'd rather live on food stamps and enjoy my collecting/dealing than tie my brain in a knot by getting involved in modern stuff. I nearly had a seizure when I finally figured out what 'refractor' meant.

Hi, Scott. The "logic" behind it is that if you get a hot card, preferably with a very low print run, of a player who seems at a very early stage to have top flight HOF potential, pick a number to sell it for immediately, then put 4 zeros behind that number before the player sustains a serious injury, simply loses it overnight as the pitchers adjust to him and he fails to return the favor, or he is exposed as a PED user! Prices are based upon speculation (with an overly large % of buyers intending not to keep the card for a collection, but to flip it for profit asap), or transient demand which is quick to depart for the next latest and greatest thing! IMHO, if you're going to buy current players, buy them when they are in their downslide in their late 30's (assuming they are good enough to still be around by then), when most of the above transient demand has departed the scene.

Best of luck,

Larry

Runscott · #2 09-04-2014, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ls7plus

Hi, Scott. The "logic" behind it is that if you get a hot card, preferably with a very low print run, of a player who seems at a very early stage to have top flight HOF potential, pick a number to sell it for immediately, then put 4 zeros behind that number before the player sustains a serious injury, simply loses it overnight as the pitchers adjust to him and he fails to return the favor, or he is exposed as a PED user! Prices are based upon speculation (with an overly large % of buyers intending not to keep the card for a collection, but to flip it for profit asap), or transient demand which is quick to depart for the next latest and greatest thing! IMHO, if you're going to buy current players, buy them when they are in their downslide in their late 30's (assuming they are good enough to still be around by then), when most of the above transient demand has departed the scene.

Best of luck,

Larry

Thanks Larry - I didn't realize it was so simple!

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

A huge DITTO to what Bob says here.

Fortunately, I'm old enough to have seen Mickey play when I was growing up (1951-1968).

Does anyone here believe Ted stopped growing up in 1968?

Mantle was already LEGENDARY when I was a kid in the early '60s, as was Willie Mays. Even at the tail-end of his career, the word 'Mantle' or 'Mays' meant something other-worldly to kids my age. Of course, 'Maris' had almost-similar status until he got traded to the Cardinals, as it took quite a long time for the '61' thing to wear off. 'BABE RUTH' was the other legendary baseball name, but you could still get a Mickey Mantle or Willie Mays baseball card when I was a kid, which made them even more special. As far as comparing Trout to Mantle, versus Mays, I think Mays would also be a valid comparison. I really don't understand how a lot of people put Mays and Mantle in different categories as far as 'legendariness' (coined term - one nickel to me if you decide to use it). Kids my age were awed by both equally, but maybe that was only in Texas since we had no particular affinity for things from either coast. And race really played no part in it - the pitchers who inspired us were Marichal, Gibson, Drysdale and Koufax, and Denny McLain for the one big year.

I've said this before, and I don't think anyone really gets it - if the kids weren't all that excited about pulling a player's card from a wax pack, then he shouldn't even be considered for the HOF. I know, it's not based on statistics, but believe me - kids took their statistics very seriously, so that also played into it. I can't remember a kid ever saying, "But Niekro for Drysdale is a great deal - look at how steady Niekro is performing over a long period with a team that no one cares about", or "Oh boy! I pulled a Blyleven!!!" Didn't happen.

I digress, but my point is that Mantle was the man (as was Mays). If Trout is 'the man' 10 years from now, and his name is mentioned in the same sentence as either Mantle or Mays, then you've got your answer. Hopefully we won't be hearing it mentioned with Bobby Murcer.

ctownboy · #3 09-04-2014, 10:58 AM

I have told this story before but it seems worth telling again. When I was first out of college, had a job and had some money to spend on baseball cards, I put advertisements in small town local papers looking to buy.

I bought two different collections of cards from two different guys. Both had collected the cards as boys and both had collected from the late 1950's until the early 1960's. Both were selling to raise money for one thing or another.

Both collections had star cards and high number cards. Both guys didn't mind selling the star cards and high numbers. However, both guys wanted to keep the cards of one player - Mickey Mantle.

So, even though the Mantle cards were some of the highest value cards and the guys were selling to make money for other things, they just couldn't part with their Mantle's.

David

Runscott · #4 09-04-2014, 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ctownboy

So, even though the Mantle cards were some of the highest value cards and the guys were selling to make money for other things, they just couldn't part with their Mantle's.

David

There was always something magical about pulling a Mantle from a pack. I don't think finding a chunk of gold would have been any more satisfying for a kid back then.

Peter_Spaeth · #5 09-04-2014, 12:46 PM

As has been often discussed, Mays of course was just as wondrous a player, and eventually his numbers were better. And he played a number of years in New York. Yet his cards in a typical year sell for a fraction of a Mantle. I suppose one could say race is the difference, but I think (and hope) that it's not that simple.

Runscott · #6 09-04-2014, 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

As has been often discussed, Mays of course was just as wondrous a player, and eventually his numbers were better. And he played a number of years in New York. Yet his cards in a typical year sell for a fraction of a Mantle. I suppose one could say race is the difference, but I think (and hope) that it's not that simple.

Peter, 'race' is often the card played when logic eludes. I think 'Yankee' is a more likely explanation. Regarding the card price comparison, it's the same for autographs.

tedzan · #7 09-04-2014, 02:05 PM

Peter

Those of us who followed the three New York teams back in the 1940's and 1950's rooted for our teams. Regardless, of which team you favored back then......
everyone in our neighborhood rooted for Jackie Robinson, Roy Campanella, Don Newcombe, Willie Mays, Monte Irvin, Elston Howard, etc, etc.

Furthermore, I'll never forget when (as an 11-year old) in the Fall of 1949 when we were in the schoolyard opening up fresh packs of 1949 Bowman cards; and,
one kid shouted out...."I got a Satchell Paige card" !

This was exciting, as all of us gathered around him to see Paige's rookie card, and hold it, and read his bio. Also, when these Hi #'s were more available, we got
excited to get a Larry Doby card (since he was a local Jersey boy).

As much as he was a fan favorite, the problem with Mays is that he has become quite a bitter person in recent years. And, he is turning off a lot of his fans. I see
Mays in Cooperstown every Summer on HOF weekend, and he is not a "friendly" guy.

TED Z

Runscott · #8 09-04-2014, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

As much as he was a fan favorite, the problem with Mays is that he has become quite a bitter person in recent years. And, he is turning off a lot of his fans. I see
Mays in Cooperstown every Summer on HOF weekend, and he is not a "friendly" guy.

TED Z

Ted, I think you are correct, but why did attitude not affect the value of Ted Williams' stuff? (you know - the 'other' Ted

)

Like Mays, I think Hank Aaron has also been the victim of his own attitude. As a kid, his card was just a notch below Mays and Mantle, but when, in later life, I read his negative comments toward Texas, expressed because of the racism he had to endure when playing there, I lost a lot of respect for him. I lived in East Texas, where racism was as bad as anywhere in Texas, and Aaron was just a great baseball player - plain and simple. Perhaps the adults were as bad as he portrayed them, but kids loved him - we didn't realize that to him we were just little racists who hadn't yet grown up to be losers. Guys like Aaron and Mays make you appreciate Jackie Robinson that much more.

Note to Hank and Willie: Old and bitter is no way to spend your golden years.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Trout $144 mil/ 6 years	I Only Smoke 4 the Cards	Watercooler Talk- ALL sports talk	15	04-02-2014 07:47 AM
Need a recommendation...Harper & Trout Rookies	Big Six	Modern Baseball Cards Forum (1980-Present)	13	06-08-2013 01:56 PM
Cano Black /61 and Trout Lot	varsitycollectibles	1980 & Newer Sports Cards B/S/T	4	02-25-2013 10:33 AM
FS: Trout, Harper etc autographs!	HOF Auto Rookies	1980 & Newer Sports Cards B/S/T	3	11-15-2012 06:28 PM
Trout, harper, strasburg, jeter, mantle and more for sale	Baseball Jack	1980 & Newer Sports Cards B/S/T	0	07-14-2012 11:35 AM