JSA, really?! Come on

jimjim · #1 10-04-2014, 12:06 PM

My other main issue with this is that this opens up the door for all the scammers out there to submit their IP Koufax to TPA. If they authenticate one then they most likely will do them all. Has anyone noticed the influx of ugly looking IP Koufax autos on eBay right now. I don't think that is a coincidence. And a bunch of people are buying them because they come with a TPA, and they are getting ripped off.

Specifically for Koufax. If it is signed on a Selig OMLB, it should have either UDA or Online Authentics COA to be 100% real, if you didn't get it IP. Otherwise you are gambling and his auto isn't cheap.

khw · #2 10-04-2014, 03:05 PM

i think the title should be "sandy, really come on" , because there is nothing wrong with this signature , it is real , but nothing more than a chance to take a swipe at a tpa , when it is apparent who doesnt have a clue what something should look like, to me this seems to go the other way that somebody needs a tpa to help them because they dont have a clue and a tpa is better than nothing

jimjim · #3 10-04-2014, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khw

i think the title should be "sandy, really come on" , because there is nothing wrong with this signature , it is real , but nothing more than a chance to take a swipe at a tpa , when it is apparent who doesnt have a clue what something should look like, to me this seems to go the other way that somebody needs a tpa to help them because they dont have a clue and a tpa is better than nothing

Sorry, but I 100% disagree with you, as this autograph is a horrible example of a Koufax autograph. It might be real, but it shouldn't have passed a TPA.

As I mentioned before, there are a ton of sloppy Koufax autos on eBay right now. There is NO WAY he signed this many autos at spring training. I was there, and It didn't happen.

packs · #4 10-04-2014, 04:14 PM

When I was at spring training he lined everyone up and signed for a pretty long time whenever he decided to sign. I must have seen at least a hundred people go through the line the days I was there. He signed a lot of stuff.

khw · #5 10-04-2014, 04:37 PM

i think if it was me i would just delete this post before anybody else reads it , but then again i wouldnt have started it

shelly · #6 10-06-2014, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

When I was at spring training he lined everyone up and signed for a pretty long time whenever he decided to sign. I must have seen at least a hundred people go through the line the days I was there. He signed a lot of stuff.

If you there do you have anything signed by him. I you do please post it.

packs · #7 10-06-2014, 02:37 PM

Sure thing. I got this autograph myself at spring training in February. This was a crowd signature and not from the line he set up later in the week.

shelly · #8 10-06-2014, 08:00 PM

That is more like it. That signature looks more like a Steiner
I have to say that we say players that are old cant sign . Dimaggio, Rizzoto , Berra, Gibson. Ford, Williams all signed or sign extremly well. I am just saying that I can not see Koufax going down hill that fast.

Runscott · #9 10-04-2014, 04:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khw

i think the title should be "sandy, really come on" , because there is nothing wrong with this signature , it is real , but nothing more than a chance to take a swipe at a tpa ,

People are just giving their opinions. If you don't like seeing negative things posted about TPA's, you should be part of the process of getting them to improve.

Quote:

Originally Posted by khw

when it is apparent who doesnt have a clue what something should look like, to me this seems to go the other way that somebody needs a tpa to help them because they dont have a clue and a tpa is better than nothing

That 'somebody' seems to be you.

shelly · #10 10-04-2014, 08:17 PM

Kirk, are you a relative to any of the Spence family?

khw · #11 10-04-2014, 09:27 PM

what is funny is a is a post about a certed piece that is good and last week a mile long post about a bad piece that failed , just constant silliness

jimjim · #12 10-05-2014, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khw

what is funny is a is a post about a certed piece that is good and last week a mile long post about a bad piece that failed , just constant silliness

First, you clearly don't get it. How do you know that signature is good? Did you see it signed with your own eyes? Otherwise, you are just guessing like all of us and the TPAs. That is the whole point of this exercise. If you don't get that, then I am not sure what else needs to be said.

Second, you have a huge conflict of interest. Your business model is to buy autographs in the raw form, get them certified by a TPA, and then mark them up for a nice profit. I have bid against you on eBay multiple times (and lost), and then I see the piece slabbed for 3x the amount of money in your eBay store. So your relationship with the TPA's is different than 99% of the members on this board.

khw · #13 10-05-2014, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimjim

First, you clearly don't get it. How do you know that signature is good? Did you see it signed with your own eyes? Otherwise, you are just guessing like all of us and the TPAs. That is the whole point of this exercise. If you don't get that, then I am not sure what else needs to be said.

Second, you have a huge conflict of interest. Your business model is to buy autographs in the raw form, get them certified by a TPA, and then mark them up for a nice profit. I have bid against you on eBay multiple times (and lost), and then I see the piece slabbed for 3x the amount of money in your eBay store. So your relationship with the TPA's is different than 99% of the members on this board.

then this just what it always is on here sour grapes , it is called doing business i provide a service to my customers and the tpa provide a service , so it is a guess? for you maybe but i consider it a more than guess on my end , i started in this business in 1986 have built something more than a guessing game , this past august just completed my 24th national and along the way set up at like maybe 400 plus shows and where i live that was flying to them. and that was pretty much stopping shows in 2002 . i have for years provided signatures to card companies and can yearly sell around a million dollars and at the same time keep 100% feedback on ebay with a return customer percent of about 25% plus every month , so am i good guesser , or over the course of the year in just my business the 7000 plus sale customers comprise the 1% not on this board? or in reality the whole world is actually using tpa and that is what is real. if folks would have actually went to the national in cleveland this year the whole hobby accepts and moves around tpa. auction houses , everything, just like 20 years ago when card grading started , just like i said sour grapes . i buy alot, i buy good stuff and i do not guess , and i pay good money for it , i then have it certed and thats what customers want

khw · #14 10-04-2014, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelly

Kirk, are you a relative to any of the Spence family?

i dont know but do we need to start pulling out each others resumes? tell you what you go first? fair enough ?

shelly · #15 10-05-2014, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khw

i dont know but do we need to start pulling out each others resumes? tell you what you go first? fair enough ?

I will be happy to go first. My past helps me know just how much people trust in a coa. They never learn that they are working for the money and they would be out of business if they turned down to many items. My past also taught me that the tpa's where easily fooled.
Last thing I learned that an opinion is just that and opinion.

Econteachert205 · #16 10-05-2014, 11:43 AM

IMO auto collectors just need to do a better job of research. Authentic or not that is a crappy Koufax sig, and if I wanted one for my collection, that one would not be it. If enough collectors think this way the market would take care of itself and crappy examples that are authenticated would sell for much less. The second question as to whether it is authentic or not I would answer in a similar way. I as a collector have a responsibility to myself to look at each auto as if it was not authenticated. No matter what anyone says I stay away from this signature. Perhaps authentication companies should say more about the signature itself in their letters, ie it was a rushed signature at a later age accounting for sloppiness. Bottom line, the collector must be diligent and do their homework.

khw · #17 10-05-2014, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shelly

I will be happy to go first. My past helps me know just how much people trust in a coa. They never learn that they are working for the money and they would be out of business if they turned down to many items. My past also taught me that the tpa's where easily fooled.
Last thing I learned that an opinion is just that and opinion.

yeah well i spend a bunch of time sorting through your past and whats left from this and seeing what happens when you dont have a tpa to provide some sort relief . every day i see operation bullpen pieces all over in auction lots , on ebay , everywhere , i may be wrong and i do not want to sound unprofessional , but i am afraid it is , but didnt the tpa actually contribute to the "past" , so you get busted and it becomes the past but makes you a expert? , but it is the foundation to prove tpa are wrong, so i will start forging stuff and slip it by tpa and my argument is see how they dont know what they are doing , just a pointless arguement , i somehow feel dirty engageing in this type conversation and i want to think i am better than this , i mean if people on this board want to buy something and make a investment and have to show for it a cert you issued or even a verbal opinion versus a tpa like psa or jsa then it is a sad statement on what people read on the internet. my resume is doing straight business for 27 years, doing right is going to be compared to this , then i am in the wrong place and need to stick to what i am doing , and shut my mouth . i just hate seeing people get filled full of misinformation and scares , i thought i could add something that was useful but maybe this counterculture here is best left to scare itself silly . i will issue a apology if i offended anybody including shelly , because facts about somebodys past i dont know all the details , people make mistakes and thats fine. what i had to offer is there , if somebody needs anything they can contact me and i will see if i can help

shelly · #18 10-05-2014, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khw

i dont know but do we need to start pulling out each others resumes? tell you what you go first? fair enough ?

By the way. I have found that when a person can no longer defend there position they always go after my past. My past has nothing to do with this post. I was just asking if he was a part of your family because of the way your defending him.
I also would like to know how you came to the conclusion that the ball is authentic?

Runscott · #19 10-05-2014, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by khw

i dont know but do we need to start pulling out each others resumes? tell you what you go first? fair enough ?

That makes sense - Shelly's past gets you off the hook for your ridiculous statements. I'll say the same thing: Are you related to someone in the Spence family? Okay, what in MY past gets you off the hook?