J.J. Clarke's Nickname

#1 04-23-2015, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

This is simple revisionist history, which seems to be all the rage these days.

You obviously believe revisionist history is always a negative, and that there are no benefits to reevaluation of the historical record. For instance, in 1930 Seattle newspapers discussed the "Seattle Royal Colored Giants", but when writing about the team in 2015, I typically refer to them as the "Seattle Royal Giants". Is that revisionist? Yes, but a way to discuss the topic without referencing and thereby emphasizing negative terminology of the day. It in no way diminishes understanding of the subject. Just my opinion, Ty

clydepepper · #2 04-23-2015, 12:38 PM

Well, it looks like it depends on the grader. So, the solution would be to have any PSA & BVG-graded N's re-slabbed by SGC:

NIG PSA.jpg
NIG.jpg
JJ CLARKE SGC.jpg

rhettyeakley · #3 04-23-2015, 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pariah1107

You obviously believe revisionist history is always a negative, and that there are no benefits to reevaluation of the historical record. For instance, in 1930 Seattle newspapers discussed the "Seattle Royal Colored Giants", but when writing about the team in 2015, I typically refer to them as the "Seattle Royal Giants". Is that revisionist? Yes, but a way to discuss the topic without referencing and thereby emphasizing negative terminology of the day. It in no way diminishes understanding of the subject. Just my opinion, Ty

I guess I am strange because I don't really see the need to edit the name of a sports team from days gone by either. If the team you are referencing wasn't actually known as the Seattle Royal Giants but were in fact they were the Seattle Royal Colored Giants at the time then I don't think you are being very clear nor historically accurate to go and change their name in 2015. You could simply put the name in quotes to indicate that it was an entity known as that and then subsequently refer to them as simply the "Giants" when referencing the team in the article (or whatever you are writing).

Leon · #4 04-23-2015, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I guess I am strange because I don't really see the need to edit the name of a sports team from days gone by either. If the team you are referencing wasn't actually known as the Seattle Royal Giants but were in fact they were the Seattle Royal Colored Giants at the time then I don't think you are being very clear nor historically accurate to go and change their name in 2015. You could simply put the name in quotes to indicate that it was an entity known as that and then subsequently refer to them as simply the "Giants" when referencing the team in the article (or whatever you are writing).

I agree. I think we are so overly-politically correct nowadays that, many times, it has the reverse effect. The more we talk about racism the more there is, so it seems. And I am not saying to push it under the rug, by any means. But at some point it's time remember, address, and move on. Just my half cent....

Michael B · #5 04-23-2015, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhettyeakley

I guess I am strange because I don't really see the need to edit the name of a sports team from days gone by either. If the team you are referencing wasn't actually known as the Seattle Royal Giants but were in fact they were the Seattle Royal Colored Giants at the time then I don't think you are being very clear nor historically accurate to go and change their name in 2015. You could simply put the name in quotes to indicate that it was an entity known as that and then subsequently refer to them as simply the "Giants" when referencing the team in the article (or whatever you are writing).

Rhett, excellent point. Using the politically correct logic would we alter the names of these teams so as not to offend the tender sensibilities of those who would find offense where none is intended?

Atlanta Black Crackers, Austin Black Senators
Baltimore Black Sox, Birmingham Black Barons
New York Black Yankees, New York Cubans

packs · #6 04-23-2015, 01:40 PM

No offense but I think you guys are missing the point. His name is J.J. Clarke. The card says J.J. Clarke. If it said Nig Clarke that would be one thing. But it doesn't. You have to go an extra step to put Nig on there.

It is obvious to me that the nickname Nig isn't some subtlety of the time. They called him Nig to diminish him and make him feel less than. It's not some antiquated nickname. It was meant to do him harm by insinuating he was a little too dark for comfort. To say the card should be identified as J.J. Clarke is not revisionist history or political correctness, the card says J.J. Clarke.

darwinbulldog · #7 04-23-2015, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

No offense but I think you guys are missing the point. His name is J.J. Clarke. The card says J.J. Clarke. If it said Nig Clarke that would be one thing. But it doesn't. You have to go an extra step to put Nig on there.

It is obvious to me that the nickname Nig isn't some subtlety of the time. They called him Nig to diminish him and make him feel less than. It's not some antiquated nickname. It was meant to do him harm by insinuating he was a little too dark for comfort. To say the card should be identified as J.J. Clarke is not revisionist history or political correctness, the card says J.J. Clarke.

Good point, each time you make it. Dan Snyder could not be reached for comment.

clydepepper · #8 04-23-2015, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by packs

No offense but I think you guys are missing the point. His name is J.J. Clarke. The card says J.J. Clarke. If it said Nig Clarke that would be one thing. But it doesn't. You have to go an extra step to put Nig on there.

It is obvious to me that the nickname Nig isn't some subtlety of the time. They called him Nig to diminish him and make him feel less than. It's not some antiquated nickname. It was meant to do him harm by insinuating he was a little too dark for comfort. To say the card should be identified as J.J. Clarke is not revisionist history or political correctness, the card says J.J. Clarke.

For that matter, J.J. isn't mentioned either. Last names are all that are displayed on T206 cards. Only a few first initials were included.

INHO, the grading companies only add first names to assist in identification and nick-names for the same reason.

I believe a lot more folks would recognize him has Nig Clarke than as J.J. Clarke and certainly more than just Clarke.

Fred Clarke was included in the set but was only F.Clarke on one card and just Clarke on the other.

trdcrdkid · #9 04-23-2015, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clydepepper

For that matter, J.J. isn't mentioned either. Last names are all that are displayed on T206 cards.

You're just flat-out wrong about this. While it's true that most T206 cards just have last names, the name on this card is "J. J. Clarke" -- see the scans just above your post in this thread.

nolemmings · #10 04-23-2015, 03:22 PM

Quote:

No offense but I think you guys are missing the point. His name is J.J. Clarke. The card says J.J. Clarke. If it said Nig Clarke that would be one thing. But it doesn't. You have to go an extra step to put Nig on there.

You have to take the extra step when dealing with most cards of Chief Bender and Chief Meyers, among other Native Americans, many of whom were not fond of the moniker. Dummy Hoy and Dummy Taylor were also known by insensitive nicknames, and both their cards and the players are remembered as such. It is historically accurate. So too with many players disparagingly called Rube. There is nothing wrong nor disrespectful with wanting to know and identify them by their names of the time. If anything, IMO, it serves to remind us of what things were like in those times.

nolemmings · #11 04-23-2015, 04:12 PM

Apparently Mr. Clarke did not mind his nickname so much that he refused to acknowledge it when signing: (on ebay now)

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