Theory regarding T206 AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (no frame) series

[ullmandds]

Sounds good to me!

I still feel like 350 no frames are tougher than 460s...

[jp1216]

Great insight Ted - as always.
Someone on another thread brought up a good question - why was the frame removed anyway?

[tedzan]

That's an interesting question.


Let's start with the timeline of these AB 350, BROAD LEAF 350, CYCLE 350, and DRUM cards. American Litho started printing these backs in the Summer of 1910.
Perhaps, the DRUM's may have also continued into the Fall of 1910.





The timeline for the AB 350 (no frame) cards is circa Fall/Winter 1910. Finally, the AB 460, LENOX, and UZIT cards in the final T206 print runs..circa Feb 1911.
Note that all 4 of these backs are without frames.







Now, the timeline for the PIEDMONT 460, Factory 42 cards is somewhat uncertain. I think it possibly was in late 1910, since all 63 subjects in the 350/460 series
were printed. But, only a dozen (or so) 460-only subjects were printed with PIEDMONT 460, Factory 42 backs.






TED Z
.

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by tedzan

Let's start with the timeline of these AB 350, BROAD LEAF 350, CYCLE 350, and DRUM cards. American Litho started printing these backs in the Summer of 1910.
Perhaps, the DRUM's may have also continued into the Fall of 1910.





The timeline for the AB 350 (no frame) cards is circa Fall/Winter 1910.

The timeline for the AB 460, LENOX and UZIT cards is circa Feb/Mar 1911.

Note that all 4 of these backs are without frames.







TED Z

I do not think the "American Beauty frame concern" has anything to do with why American Litho. (ALC) eliminated the frame from their 2nd and 3rd AB series of cards.
My above repeated post illustrates what in my opinion explains the lack of frames on the 2nd & 3rd AB issues. The missing frame designs of the AB 350 NF and AB 460
backs are consistent with ALC's design of their LENOX and UZIT backs. The AB 460, LENOX & UZIT advertisements were printed at the tail-end of the T206 production.



TED Z
.

[tedzan]

My guess is that American Litho started cutting the AB's thinner in anticipation of the narrower AB packs. It's my understanding that the
narrower (8-cigarette) American Beauty packs were to be introduced sometime in 1911.


. .









The widths of the AB cards vary all over the place. This Davy Jones is the "fattest" of my AB cards (it is exactly the width of a normal T206 card).


..v.................... 1 7/16" ......................v
.





While AB 460 cards consistently tend to be the narrowest of the cards in the three American Beauty series......

.




TED Z
.

[tedzan]

POPulation report data (SGC + PSA) for those of you who are interested in numbers.

POP #....Subject

11...........Baker
20...........Bender (no trees)
20...........Burch (fielding)
10...........Conroy (bat)
17...........Crawford (bat)
13...........Doolan (bat)
15...........Downey (bat)
11...........Larry Doyle (bat)
13...........Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
20...........Griffith (bat)
13...........Jennings (two hands)
17...........Johnson (pitching)
15...........Jordan (bat)
11...........Konetchy (glove low)
11...........Lake (no ball)
22...........Leifield (bat)
11...........Magee (bat)
19...........Manning (pitching)
15...........McQuillan (bat)
13...........Mullin (bat)
14...........Murphy (bat)
_7...........Nichols (bat)
13...........Overall (yellow sky)
11...........Pelty (vertical)
13...........Pfeister (throwing)
14...........Reulbach (no glove)
12...........Rucker (throwing)
14...........Seymour (throwing)
_8...........Stahl (glove
14...........Steinfeldt (bat)
15...........Street (catching)
12...........Sweeney (fielding)
16...........Wagner (bat on right)
18...........Wilhelm (bat)
18...........Willetts
22...........Willis (bat)
16...........Wiltse (pitching)




TED Z
.

[mrvster]

wow!!! great data

[Pat R]

Originally Posted by tedzan

POPulation report data (SGC + PSA) for those of you who are interested in numbers.

POP #....Subject

11...........Baker
20...........Bender (no trees)
20...........Burch (fielding)
14...........Conroy (bat)
17...........Crawford (bat)
13...........Doolan (bat)
15...........Downey (bat)
11...........Larry Doyle (bat)
13...........Elberfeld (Washington-fielding)
20...........Griffith (bat)
13...........Jennings (two hands)
17...........Johnson (pitching)
15...........Jordan (bat)
11...........Konetchy (glove low)
11...........Lake (no ball)
22...........Leifield (bat)
11...........Magee (bat)
19...........Manning (pitching)
15...........McQuillan (bat)
13...........Mullin (bat)
14...........Murphy (bat)
_7...........Nichols (bat)
13...........Overall (yellow sky)
11...........Pelty (vertical)
13...........Pfeister (throwing)
14...........Reulbach (no glove)
12...........Rucker (throwing)
14...........Seymour (throwing)
_8...........Stahl (glove
14...........Steinfeldt (bat)
15...........Street (catching)
12...........Sweeney (fielding)
16...........Wagner (bat on right)
18...........Wilhelm (bat)
18...........Willetts
22...........Willis (bat)
16...........Wiltse (pitching)




TED Z
.

Hi Ted,

PSA didn't specify AB 350NF/460 until just recently so the 19 subjects that were printed with
both would be the combined population. (I have been thinking it might be fun
to do a 350/460 subset of these 19 with both backs).

[The Nasty Nati]

+1 I see 460's pop up way more often than 350 NF's. Definitely an undervalued/under-appreciated back.

And in regards to why they removed the frame, I would bet that they were having too many issues with the frame continually being cut off as the cards were slimmed for packaging. It's somewhat rare to find a perfectly centered AB 350 Framed back.

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Sounds good to me!

I still feel like 350 no frames are tougher than 460s...

[mrvster]

it's great to have the whole sub set

[tedzan]

Originally Posted by ullmandds

Sounds good to me!

I still feel like 350 no frames are tougher than 460s...

Sorry to differ with you......but, quantitatively speaking there are twice the number of AB 460 subjects than the AB 350 NF subjects. And, this factor in itself tends
to give one the impression that AB 460's are more available. Resulting in some collectors considering AB 350 NF being tougher than the 460's.

NOT TRUE ! ....guys .

Trust me.....it has taken me 9 years to try to complete a fairly nice condition AB 460 sub-set. And, I am still 4 cards shy of attaining the 74 cards in it.

While it took me only one year to acquire 36 of the 37 cards (missing Johnson) of the AB 350 NF sub-set.

Yes, there are some easier cards to find in the AB 460 set. Namely, the 12 cards that I refer to as the "Exclusive 12". But, there are at least 24 or more cards that
are extremely tough to find in this set. Certainly much more tougher than any of the AB 350 NF guys.


TED Z
.

[ullmandds]

no argument from me, Ted...I have not done a fraction of the research you have in this area...just my general perception from my limited experience.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Sorry to differ with you......but, quantitatively speaking there are twice the number of AB 460 subjects than the AB 350 NF subjects. And, this factor in itself tends
to give one the impression that AB 460's are more available. Resulting in some collectors considering AB 350 NF being tougher than the 460's....NOT SO. guys !

Trust me.....it has taken me 9 years to try to complete a fairly nice condition AB 460 sub-set. And, I am still 4 cards shy of attaining the 74 cards in it.

While it took me only one year to acquire 36 cards (missing Johnson) of the AB 350 NF set.

Yes, there are some easier cards to find in the AB 460 set.....namely the 12 cards that I refer to as the "Exclusive 12". But, there are at least two dozen cards that
are extremely tough to find in this set. Certainly much more tougher than any of the AB 350 NF guys.


TED Z
.

[David R]

Ted,
Thanks for sharing your extensive experience and knowledge about this set. As always, much appreciated.

[tedzan]

Thanks guys....I really appreciate your expressions of support.


TED Z
.

[peterb69]

Thanks Ted as always for you input in this forum.

[parkerj33]

That was my contention that they removed the frame because they were cutting off frame when making the AB's more narrow.