What Should A Dealer Do?

rocarroll · #1 10-06-2015, 10:52 AM

Since the card being presented by the seller is professionally graded then he should be some what educated on cards and values. Not much of a break for the seller IMO. If he presented it raw in a group of others maybe a different story. My point being people buying graded cards or submitting cards to be graded should be more educated as opposed to someone showing up with a shoe box of cards. So let's hear it what did the OP do?

T206Collector · #2 10-06-2015, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocarroll

Since the card being presented by the seller is professionally graded then he should be some what educated on cards and values.

Just to be clear, in the poll description I said that the card is shown to the dealer in raw format, and not graded.

It seems that for many the issue may turn on how the seller presented the card to the dealer. Did he say, "I'll take $50 for the card." Or did he say, "What would you pay for the card?"

For me, this is such a specific rarity in collecting that I would educate the seller either way. And I think most dealers that I frequent would say the same thing. But, I also think a lot of dealers would just give the guy the $50, or give a low-ball offer to gauge the seller's awareness of the market.

ullmandds · #3 10-06-2015, 11:15 AM

this discussion is kinda interesting...as in the "olden" days...dealers made their livings "taking advantage" of unknowing customers. yet NOW...it seems that now it is the "dealers" responsibility to educate the consigner/walk-in/seller.

I'm not sure how I feel about this?

personally I have always been an advocate of knowledge is power...and it's one thing to be evaluating a babe ruth or ty cobb card...that most will know is valuable or can easily be looked up...but a card like this...not so much!?

glchen · #4 10-06-2015, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T206Collector

...It seems that for many the issue may turn on how the seller presented the card to the dealer. Did he say, "I'll take $50 for the card." Or did he say, "What would you pay for the card?"
...

I think what often happens is that the person comes to a dealer's table with the card and says, "I want to sell this card." The dealer says: "How much do you want for it?" The person says: "$50." Dealer says: "Here are two $20's and a $10. Thanks for your business."

midmo · #5 10-06-2015, 11:25 AM

.

vintagetoppsguy · #6 10-06-2015, 11:41 AM

For anybody that thinks the dealer has an obligation to educate the seller, let's turn the situation around. If you were buying the same card from a dealer and he had it marked at $50, would you tell him you think it's worth $3K (just throwing that number out there) and offer him more, or would you just pay his $50 asking price?

I'm just curious how you answer the question when the scenario if flipped.

Bored5000 · #7 10-06-2015, 11:55 AM

This thread makes me think it would an interesting case study for someone take a card like the one shown to a major show and see how often a seller would be taken advantage of vs. the other options.

ibuysportsephemera · #8 10-06-2015, 12:05 PM

For those posting that they think that the dealer has an obligation to inform...I call BS. If you are "stupid" enough to take a card that you know nothing about to a card show and sell it to the first dealer you approach, you deserve to be low balled.

Sorry to be so "rude" about this, but in today's age of information (on your phone, computer, tv, etc.) there is no excuse other than laziness for not being informed.

Jeff

t206trader · #9 10-06-2015, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

For anybody that thinks the dealer has an obligation to educate the seller, let's turn the situation around. If you were buying the same card from a dealer and he had it marked at $50, would you tell him you think it's worth $3K (just throwing that number out there) and offer him more, or would you just pay his $50 asking price?

I'm just curious how you answer the question when the scenario if flipped.

I think the difference is the dealer IS an expert on the subject matter. If they aren't, they stand to lose money and go out of business. Does a buyer have an obligation to do research, yes. Still, who could respect someone who took advantage of someone else who didn't have ANY knowledge of what they had. While it seems easy for most of us to access prices via ebay or auctions this is not true for some of the general public who have never even accessed ebay. I think that if the individual approaches and has no idea what they have, the dealer owes a moral obligation to at least inform the seller. Anything less seems at the very least sheisty.

Laxcat · #10 10-06-2015, 12:02 PM

Depends on the dealer. If he/she has always tried to lowball me on everything I have for sale, then the answer is no. If the dealer is someone that helps others or does charity stuff for kids etc, yes I tell them it's worth more than $50.

If it comes to my table I will try to tell them what it is worth or find someone that does know. It would be out of my price range if it was a 3k card. My reputation as a dealer would be worth more to me than making that $2950.

steve B · #11 10-06-2015, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

For anybody that thinks the dealer has an obligation to educate the seller, let's turn the situation around. If you were buying the same card from a dealer and he had it marked at $50, would you tell him you think it's worth $3K (just throwing that number out there) and offer him more, or would you just pay his $50 asking price?

I'm just curious how you answer the question when the scenario if flipped.

Some interesting comments all around.

I went with the "educate the buyer and offer a bit less than a recent sale" option.
But I could just as easily have gone with the "tell them about some auction houses" option.
If I were a dealer the choice between the two would depend on whether the card was a good fit with my inventory and if I had enough on hand to make a reasonable offer.
I might also refer a seller to another dealer who'd be a better buyer, or possibly to a particular collector if they were there.

As far as what I'd do from the opposite side of the table, that to me is different. Some random person who has a card or cards to sell might have a hard time finding enough information to have a decent idea what they have, unless the card is an easy one to identify like most mainstream postwar cards.

A dealer on the other hand should have the knowledge to at least know if something is "special" or not. And enough sense to look it up. So if it was on a dealers table for $50 yes, I'd buy it. (Making a handful of exceptions for dealers who I've known long enough to be closer to friends than just someone I do business with - But it's rare that I know something they don't) Overall it's a bit more complex when it's a dealer.

I have bought some stamps from dealers on Ebay who are fairly advanced and should have known what they were selling but didn't take the time.
One very advanced dealer I asked about stuff like that told me that for the difference in price he'd get on specific items I'd bought (Not from him) he couldn't be bothered to look up the special varieties. The time to become a specialist would be too costly. Note, this is a guy who typically has stuff in inventory in the mid 5 figures, so learning about the stamp with a $2K catalog value that there's only a handful known genuinely isn't worth his time.

I've also known dealers like someone else mentioned who thought their escapades in seriously lowballing people showed their smarts or something. I didn't avoid buying from them, but did make the rounds of their shops a couple times a year. They made their own mistakes......

Steve B

SAllen2556 · #12 10-06-2015, 12:30 PM

The sports memorabilia business is completely unregulated. As long as it is, the answer will almost always be �feign indifference�. There�s too little risk compared to the reward. This is brought to light and discussed on an almost daily basis right here - gratefully I might add. Everything from fakes on eBay to shilling to even trimming the most famous card of all time - the reward almost always outweighs the risk.

Last card show I went to, I saw two trimmed cards in the first 10 minutes. I told the dealers who "feigned ignorance". What's the risk to the dealer? Like I'm gonna call a cop over a trimmed card at a show?

I actually don�t know what I�d do. I�d like to think I�d be honest, but��.

I can say, however, I would never hesitate to rip off a dealer- as if! Sorry.

midmo · #13 10-06-2015, 12:39 PM

.

Joshchisox08 · #14 10-06-2015, 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vintagetoppsguy

For anybody that thinks the dealer has an obligation to educate the seller, let's turn the situation around. If you were buying the same card from a dealer and he had it marked at $50, would you tell him you think it's worth $3K (just throwing that number out there) and offer him more, or would you just pay his $50 asking price?

I'm just curious how you answer the question when the scenario if flipped.

I'm with you on this Dave.

rocarroll · #15 10-06-2015, 02:55 PM

Probably best to have a nice will in place outlying everything you have and what the value of it is and what to do with it. If you don't, a shady card dealer is the least of your worries. Getting it probated through court will cost you a whole hell of a lot more than mom losing a $100 on a graded card. If you don't take care of your affairs properly that's on you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by midmo

As someone who has had a couple deaths in the family this year (and had to deal with old items I knew nothing about), I just hope I don't get hit by a bus tomorrow and my mother (who knows nothing about cards and barely uses the internet) doesn't get taken advantage by some of you guys just because she shows up somewhere with a bunch of graded cards. That's pretty weak in my opinion.

Kevin.Shenker · #16 10-06-2015, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rocarroll

Probably best to have a nice will in place outlying everything you have and what the value of it is and what to do with it. If you don't, a shady card dealer is the least of your worries. Getting it probated through court will cost you a whole hell of a lot more than mom losing a $100 on a graded card. If you don't take care of your affairs properly that's on you.

I keep a spreadsheet with every price I paid for the card, where I bought it and when, along with the auction catalogue and the item number written in the front cover of it. Additionally a long list of contacts to consult before making any moves, in case the inevitable happens.

I also have talked to said people who will be in the recipients of said assets so they are aware of what they will be receiving.

Lets hope that doesn't earn me a bullet.

polakoff · #17 10-06-2015, 05:02 PM

As a dealer I've run across scenarios like this, both in my own dealings and being within earshot of other dealers.

A lot of dealers are sharks. They would feign ignorance, buy it for pennies, and crow to others about the deal they got, as someone in this thread mentioned earlier.

Whether I'm buying a $10 lot of commons or a $3000 card I always ask the seller what he's looking for. I also always have a price in mind when I do so. I do this for two reasons:

1) If the seller thinks what he has is much more valuable than it is, I don't want him thinking I am lowballing him, and risk having him turned off from the hobby, telling others I'm a crook, etc. I can't tell you the number of times someone with a 5000 count box of 80s commons has wanted between $200 and $500 for it.
2) If the seller isn't aware of the value, I tell him I'll pay more.

Even though I think the show is scripted crap, you can see the latter happen sometimes on Pawn Stars. To me, it's the right thing to do.

In general the number in my head is the max I'm willing to pay. No one would willingly want to pay the max they're willing to pay for anything.

If someone comes to my table with a $300 card, and I'm willing to pay $175, and he asks for $20, I would tell him that's not nearly enough, let him know what he has is valuable, and offer something more like $125. He's happy and feels treated appropriately. I'm happy because I got a card I wanted for less than I wanted to pay for it.

Now, as for whether the reverse is true...unless it's an egregious error on the dealer's part, or something that I think wasn't intended (ie, a card clearly out of place, or with an unfinished price tag or misplaced decimal) I don't report price discrepancies. If the seller doesn't realize what he had - I don't make it my mission to inform him unless I don't want the card. I've sold $20 cards for $1 because I didn't realize what I had, and I've bought $20 cards for $1 for the same reasons. To me that's because the dealer - the person who is making his money and possibly his living off of this - should know what he needs for his cards.

View Poll Results: What should a dealer do if this card comes raw to your table at a show?
Feign ignorance and buy the card for under $100	36	19.05%
Educate the seller and offer a minor discount off of a recent auction sale?	83	43.92%
Inform the seller about some recent comparable sales and suggest an auction house	58	30.69%
Tell him its garbage and tell him to go away	12	6.35%
Voters: 189. You may not vote on this poll

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