Do you believe there are any undervalued Mantle items?

[KCRfan1]

Robert, the 62, 63, and 64 all seem reasonably priced. Not crazy about the 68 though that year appears to be the least expensive of the Topps series. I would expect the 62 to be more expensive being an MVP year, but a nice card can be had for less than $250. I'm not sure why that is.

[Bestdj777]

I think the higher grade base cards will likely see an uptick in price as a result of the 52 Topps price surges. The 51 Bowman may see some increases as well, particularly as the 52 Topps becomes less and less obtainable for regular collectors.

The cards I really think are undervalued though are there Venezuelans and the rarer regional pieces. Some of these have seen a recent uptick, but the more common Venezuelans can still be had for relatively decent prices despite the relatively small number of them in existence.

I think the Topps test issues are a completely different story as I think it is incredibly difficult to tell what the value actually is of many of them. I do think that some of them are really under appreciated though.

[ls7plus]

Yes, there are. Among the one's I already have, the '53-'55 Dormand in higher grade (ExMt or better) and the '55 Exhibit Postcard Back in any grade. A well-centered '69 White Lettered version (I have one almost perfectly centered, but it almost looks like one that met up with the bicycle spokes), a NrMt (TPG) '59 Bazooka, plus another which I have a continuing search on. While there may only be a fraction of the demand for these cards compared to the '52 Topps, since the supply is much smaller in most of the above instances, you only need a fraction of the demand also to reach really substantial value in the long run.

Good, thoughtful thread,

Larry

[DeanH3]

'54 Dan-Dee. A tough great looking early card that is not too obscure but still a relatively low pop compared to Topps issues. I recently acquired one so I might be a little biased. I also think the '53 Bowman has a lot of potential as well.

[KCRfan1]

Dean, I had forgotten about DanDee! Many of those cards have chip stains of some sort and nice examples I assume can be hard to find. Your post reminded me about the 54 Red Heart! The DanDee and Red Heart are both nice looking cards. I imagine the DanDee would be more desirable due to sensitivity to condition from being packaged in potato chips. Therefore a better playing purchasing?

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Your post reminded me about the 54 Red Heart! The DanDee and Red Heart are both nice looking cards.

The '54 Red Heart Mantle in nice (EX-MT or better) shape can be a stunning card. I used to have a couple of them back when I was really doing a lot of buying and selling of cards before I settled down with things like a family. Wish I had hung onto one of them...and yes, I think that card for how beautiful it is is undervalued when compared to many other Mantle items (i.e. any of his regular issue 1950's Topps cards graded in decent shape still likely sell for more).

[CW]

Originally Posted by DeanH3

'54 Dan-Dee. A tough great looking early card that is not too obscure but still a relatively low pop compared to Topps issues. I recently acquired one so I might be a little biased. I also think the '53 Bowman has a lot of potential as well.

I would have to agree with Dean's assessment. '54 Dan Dee!

congrats on the new card!

[KCRfan1]

Brian,

Can you post an image of your Stahl-Meyer Franks Mantle? Would it be safe to say that, even though you paid 4x back in the day, the value far exceeds that price now? Again, I suppose the term " undervalued " may apply to regional issues of Mantle.

Are there some Mantle cards that are a little too obscure? Someone mentioned Transogram. Is there a market for them or the 68 Topps game cards? Both sets have star power, are they undervalued or just no interest from collectors?

[Bestdj777]

The 68 Game cards were produced in large quantity and the supply definitely outweighs the demand. The Transogram cards are a bit more difficult and bringing a lot stronger prices, particularly in complete box form. Shameless plug, but if anyone is looking for a decent Transogram I've got one I picked up at Clean Sweep Auction that I'd let go at cost--I finally got a complete box.

I love the Red Hearts, but my understanding is that they continued to release those for many, many years through the mail.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Brian,

Are there some Mantle cards that are a little too obscure? Someone mentioned Transogram. Is there a market for them or the 68 Topps game cards? Both sets have star power, are they undervalued or just no interest from collectors?

I don't think there are any Mantle cards that are too obscure. And as far as undervalued, I guess what you're really asking is, 'Are there any cards we think will see a significant uptick in price?"

As we all know, the main determination of price is supply and demand. Supply is supposedly (legally) fixed (or decreasing as items are destroyed). Demand fluctuates. So the question boils down to, "Will demand increase enough in the future to cause an increase in the price?" That's the $64,000 question; and I think mainly a question for speculators. If enough speculators think it's value may go up, they may jump in causing a self-fulfilling prophecy. If that were to happen, in my opinion, that would make the card overvalued. Only if the collector base were to significantly increase in the future (in relation to a card's supply) would the card be undervalued today, again, in my opinion.

An example, the 1968 Topps game card. Like Chris said, the supply of the 1968 Topps game card exceeds the demand, hence it has a low "price." Is it undervalued? No, not according to today's demand. Will demand increase for this card in the future? It's anyone's guess. In my opinion, there are enough cards out there that, I think, the demand for this card will be met for some time to come.

There are some cards that may not have a large supply, but they are butt ugly and only a completest would want it (e.g., the 1965 Bancroft Tiddlers Giants of Sport (that's just my own personal opinion)). I can't ever see a card like this being in high demand.

Generally, I'm a pessimist in regards to the long-term "value" of Mantle cards and I'm amazed at the price increases I've seen. I'm also disappointed; there are still a bunch of his cards I'd like to get and I hate to see their "value" increasing before I can get them.

[AustinMike]

[Dup]

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by kcrfan1

brian,

Can you post an image of your Stahl-Meyer Franks mantle? Would it be safe to say that, even though you paid 4x back in the day, the value far exceeds that price now? Again, i suppose the term " undervalued " may apply to regional issues of mantle.

Lou, i'll have to see what I can do. I'd have to have my son help me load up some image of it. Yeah, I'm a real "brontosaurus". My '54 Stahl-Meyer Mantle gem is in my book, and it came out beautifully with the accouterments I chose for its portrait.

For most of the chapters, I don't own anything great to speak of, but for this one, I do. Graded SGC50 VG-EX. It was never imprisoned between the two rows of wet, greasy but delicious Stahl-Meyer frankfurters. Color is off the charts. Centering is dead 50-50 both ways. Its only flaw, and I mean only, is a half-inch back crease that starts on a side edge of the card and goes in, missing Mickey but reducing the grade from Mint to technical VG-EX. A technical knock-out for the grade; nevertheless, the card is simply breathtaking.

Are there some Mantle cards that are a little too obscure? Someone mentioned Transogram. (NOTE-----The Transogram is appreciated by quite a number of Mickey Mantle enthusiasts; recently I saw a PSA 9 on eBay. The seller's price escapes me, but it was colossal.) Is there a market for them or the 68 Topps game cards? Both sets have star power, are they undervalued or just no interest from collectors?

Some of the Topps test issues were either never issued or sold in a Brooklyn candy store for test purposes. Some of them are gorgeous; some are very obscure, and ugly to boot. I would even urge our resident Mickey Mantle master completionist not to lose any sleep over them. Be that as it may, whatever he chooses, he's my pal and I'm behind him.

Besides, these obscure Topps test issues are indeed Topps products, and have bus-loads of feverish fans, as well they should be.

'Nuf said. Regards, Brian Powell

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by KCRfan1

Brian,
Would it be safe to say that, even though you paid 4x back in the day, the value far exceeds that price now?

Those regional issues in any kind of shape have always been pricey. I have the 2nd issue of Baseball Cards magazine from 1981, and they value the Stahl-Meyer Mantles at $700 and up even back then. To put into context, remember that in 1981 a gallon of gas cost $1, a dozen eggs cost about 90 cents, and the median household income in the US was less than 30K per year. Other run-of-the-mill star cards from the 1950's in "mint" condition could be mostly had for well less than $20.

[Gr8Beldini]

A crease free, clean cut 1963 Jello Mantle is near impossible. I don't know what they typically sell for because they never seem to be offered up for sale, but I would happily pay the "book price" for a nice one.

[brian1961]

Yes, very much so.

How's that for a succinct answer?

---Brian Powell

[jchcollins]

Don't get me wrong, I understand the economics of nostalgia and I get why Mantle stuff is valued the way most of it is - but I think most of it is grossly overvalued if you look at the other players that were also the big names of that era. Compare the Mantle-fever to what you pay for even really nice Stan Musial items, for example. But - it was anointed this way in the 1980's, and I see little hope of anything ever changing. In the meantime, it's nice to be a Cubs fan and pay in the neighborhood of $50 for nice 1950's cards of Ernie Banks instead of $300 or more if Mantle really was my guy.

[brian1961]

Originally Posted by Gr8Beldini

A crease free, clean cut 1963 Jello Mantle is near impossible. I don't know what they typically sell for because they never seem to be offered up for sale, but I would happily pay the "book price" for a nice one.

I am biting my lip extra hard not to be sarcastic. So you're generous enough you'd force yourself to pay the "book price" for a nice 1963 JELL-O Mickey Mantle? If you can only hear your voice, my friend. Really? You'd finally ante up enough and make your Washingtons blink for five minutes to pay book value for a nice '63 JELL-O? If this scenario was a line waiting to get into Yankee Stadium to see Mickey Mantle play, you'd be back in the line 5 miles away!

I admit in all humility I'm out of the buying ball game at today's prices. Nevertheless, precisely the same supply, demand, economic, mental, and emotional factors were at play 25 years ago when I was a "Mantle Maniac".

If I may be so bold to divulge a bit of my strategy; regardless of the fact eBay, and major and minor auction houses present us with virtual LIVE scans and picture images of a mega plethora of Mickey Mantle items, when it comes to the beautiful, scarce, and/or rare Mantle items---based upon surviving specimens and / or profound condition rarities, the astute Mickey Mantle connoisseur must take on the persona of the male Bengal Tiger---AND ATTACK WITH EVERYTHING THEY'VE GOT! In other words, there were phrases used with such choice, difficult Mickey Mantles.

To wit:

"THE PRICE IS OPEN TO NEGOTIATION"

"THE PRICE GUIDE GOES OUT THE WINDOW!"

"YOU CAN THROW THE PRICE GUIDE AWAY ON THIS ONE!"

"WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY LIES BEFORE YOU, DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO PLAY THE SMART ASS POKER PLAYER! The owner's liable to get ticked off and not sell that rare Mantle for you for ANY price."

You act like a gracious gentleman, mind your manners (hopefully you have some---hopefully!) and express humble gratitude to the owner for his deeming you worthy of owning such a rare Mantle, and then, "How would you like your money---cash, bank draft, or a stack of US Postal Money Orders?"

For example, when I purchased my long-wanted 1954 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle from Bill Mastro, he would not come down on his price, which was 4X book. Did I wait for him to come down?

And lose it to one of the many other Mantle collectors who would've licked their chops to get their hands on that monster of a Mantle?

NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

He gave me two months to come up with the dough. I turned many cards in my collection into just the one dream card. He kept his word. I kept mine.

Was it worth it when I unwrapped his package?

You better believe it, and I still have this Mickey----26 years later. One of the most breathtaking Mickey Mantles on the face of Planet Earth.

Well, bro, in the end, the opportunity to get certain Mickey Mantles falls into the categories:

RARE, SELDOM OPPORTUNITY

CHANCE OF A LIFETIME

My Stahl-Meyer Franks was a chance of a lifetime.

So, when you find a Mantle you like, don't you dare Scotch the rare opportunity just because you're such a cheapskate! As a hungry Bengal Tiger on the prowl, you better pounce when you can.

Think about it. Think real hard and ponder this matter. For so many of us Mantle connoisseurs, our most cherished pieces are the non-mainstream. The good 'ol vanilla and chocolate Topps and Bowmans are terrific in every sense. But my favorites at Baskin-Robbins 31 Flavors were Black Raspberry and Jamocha Almond Fudge.

I sincerely hope your hunt proves successful for a 1963 JELL-O Mickey, but you better re-think your MODUS OPERANDI, bub. For what it's worth, you should also hunt down fantasy card maker Bob Lemke. Earlier this year, he created a fantasy 1963 JELL-O Black Raspberry box with a gorgeous variant photo of Mickey Mantle. He used the dazzling shot taken of No. 7 for JELL-O's large in-store advertising placard. Worth every Washington I spent on that exquisite piece, and it didn't cost many bucks, either.

Take care. ----Brian Powell

[jchcollins]

Originally Posted by brian1961

For example, when I purchased my long-wanted 1954 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle from Bill Mastro, he would not come down on his price, which was 4X book. Did I wait for him to come down?

Bill Mastro, eh? The T-206 Wagner cutter himself? Surprised he wanted only 4x book. Ah well, I suppose beauty and book value both are in eye of the beholder when chasing your white whale...

[bbcard1]

I think a nice Transogram is a decent buy at current levels.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by brian1961

So, when you find a Mantle you like, don't you dare Scotch the rare opportunity just because you're such a cheapskate! As a hungry Bengal Tiger on the prowl, you better pounce when you can.

----Brian Powell

For me, it was the 1960 Post Mantle. First Mantle card I ever had. Ended up in the dump in the 60s.

Kept watching eBay and passing on lower condition examples. Finally, a nice one came up with a BIN or Best Offer. The BIN was slightly higher than "book value." I didn't hesitate or waste time with a Best Offer. Still don't regret pulling the trigger on it. As Janis Joplin sang, "Gotta get it while you can."

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by brian1961

I am biting my lip extra hard not to be sarcastic. So you're generous enough you'd force yourself to pay the "book price" for a nice 1963 JELL-O Mickey Mantle? If you can only hear your voice, my friend. Really? You'd finally ante up enough and make your Washingtons blink for five minutes to pay book value for a nice '63 JELL-O? If this scenario was a line waiting to get into Yankee Stadium to see Mickey Mantle play, you'd be back in the line 5 miles away!

I admit in all humility I'm out of the buying ball game at today's prices. Nevertheless, precisely the same supply, demand, economic, mental, and emotional factors were at play 25 years ago when I was a "Mantle Maniac".

If I may be so bold to divulge a bit of my strategy; regardless of the fact eBay, and major and minor auction houses present us with virtual LIVE scans and picture images of a mega plethora of Mickey Mantle items, when it comes to the beautiful, scarce, and/or rare Mantle items---based upon surviving specimens and / or profound condition rarities, the astute Mickey Mantle connoisseur must take on the persona of the male Bengal Tiger---AND ATTACK WITH EVERYTHING THEY'VE GOT! In other words, there were phrases used with such choice, difficult Mickey Mantles.

To wit:

"THE PRICE IS OPEN TO NEGOTIATION"

"THE PRICE GUIDE GOES OUT THE WINDOW!"

"YOU CAN THROW THE PRICE GUIDE AWAY ON THIS ONE!"

"WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY LIES BEFORE YOU, DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO PLAY THE SMART ASS POKER PLAYER! The owner's liable to get ticked off and not sell that rare Mantle for you for ANY price."

You act like a gracious gentleman, mind your manners (hopefully you have some---hopefully!) and express humble gratitude to the owner for his deeming you worthy of owning such a rare Mantle, and then, "How would you like your money---cash, bank draft, or a stack of US Postal Money Orders?"

For example, when I purchased my long-wanted 1954 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle from Bill Mastro, he would not come down on his price, which was 4X book. Did I wait for him to come down?

And lose it to one of the many other Mantle collectors who would've licked their chops to get their hands on that monster of a Mantle?

NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

He gave me two months to come up with the dough. I turned many cards in my collection into just the one dream card. He kept his word. I kept mine.

Was it worth it when I unwrapped his package?

You better believe it, and I still have this Mickey----26 years later. One of the most breathtaking Mickey Mantles on the face of Planet Earth.

Well, bro, in the end, the opportunity to get certain Mickey Mantles falls into the categories:

RARE, SELDOM OPPORTUNITY

CHANCE OF A LIFETIME

My Stahl-Meyer Franks was a chance of a lifetime.

So, when you find a Mantle you like, don't you dare Scotch the rare opportunity just because you're such a cheapskate! As a hungry Bengal Tiger on the prowl, you better pounce when you can.

Think about it. Think real hard and ponder this matter. For so many of us Mantle connoisseurs, our most cherished pieces are the non-mainstream. The good 'ol vanilla and chocolate Topps and Bowmans are terrific in every sense. But my favorites at Baskin-Robbins 31 Flavors were Black Raspberry and Jamocha Almond Fudge.

I sincerely hope your hunt proves successful for a 1963 JELL-O Mickey, but you better re-think your MODUS OPERANDI, bub. For what it's worth, you should also hunt down fantasy card maker Bob Lemke. Earlier this year, he created a fantasy 1963 JELL-O Black Raspberry box with a gorgeous variant photo of Mickey Mantle. He used the dazzling shot taken of No. 7 for JELL-O's large in-store advertising placard. Worth every Washington I spent on that exquisite piece, and it didn't cost many bucks, either.

Take care. ----Brian Powell

+1 on this philosophy. When a rare, choice item comes along, jump on it! As prolific coin writer/dealer/expert extraordinaire Q. David Bowers said many times, no great collection was ever formed by waiting for bargains. Otherwise stated, he who hesitates is lost!

Best of luck in your collecting,

Larry

[Topps206]

I've seen later year Mantle base cards under $100.00. That's rare. Almost anything Mantle base is sometimes more expensive than a T206 for some Hall of Famers.

[Exhibitman]

A few more issues I think are undervalued or underappreciated:


1965 Old London coin:

Requena Mantle-Maris:

1968 American Oil

[glynparson]

some cards mentioned are underpriced in the book but if went up for sale would command serious money, For example what would a dice game bring in auction in this market i think it would bring in a boatload. as for 58 all star if anything it is overpriced as it is such an easy card to acquire compared to the other as cards.

[KCRfan1]

Those are nice items Adam! The Dexter Press is a great picture of Mantle! Are those real signatures on the photo of Maris and Mantle?

[begsu1013]

i'd say the 54 topps card. seriously. most people don't even know it actually exists.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by begsu1013

i'd say the 54 topps card. seriously. most people don't even know it actually exists.

You mean the paper magazine cutout from SI?

[ls7plus]

Originally Posted by glynparson

some cards mentioned are underpriced in the book but if went up for sale would command serious money, For example what would a dice game bring in auction in this market i think it would bring in a boatload. as for 58 all star if anything it is overpriced as it is such an easy card to acquire compared to the other as cards.

Glyn makes an excellent point with regard to items so rare and significant (it's Mantle!) that they hardly ever come up for sale or auction--you can usually throw the book away for these cards. Once they and their rarity become known, there's a huge amount of pent-up demand.

Re the "58 All-Star, yes, it is quite common, but if Bob Costas keeps putting them in his wallet unprotected until they wear out, maybe they won't be!

Happy collecting, guys,

Larry

[ALR-bishop]

The 3 Topps Mantles I do not have are the 61 Dice, 66 Punch Out and 68 Disc. There are two board members who have the Dice card. Not sure about the 66 Punch Out or 68 Disc, but I have seen them. The Dice card has sold for a lot but well under high grade versions of the 52 card, which in my mind demonstrates the extremely high demand for that relatively easy to find card.

The Dice card is B&W and the 67 and 68 Discs are small non cards, and the 66 Punch out is a small head shot, but am surprised the 67 Stand Up, in either form ( mine is a proof), does not go for more money when and if it ever comes up, because it is a great looking "card"

[begsu1013]

al,

can you post pics of the items your are talking about?

[ALR-bishop]

The only scan I have is of my 67 Stand Up. I have both versions of the 67 Punch Out, but not the 66 ( or any examples). I have the 67 Disc ( on an uncut sheet), but not the 68. The only Dice card I have is a Kaline. Maybe Larry can post his 61 Mantle Dice. Not sure if he has the 66 Punch Out, but maybe