Another fake 52T Mantle on ebay

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by glynparson

from what i understand many of the fake older flips and fake older slabs are produced by some scumbag from central/latin america somewhere. Card is really poor reproduction on this one. not even close to real. Good work Peter.

Are they making slabs? I know at one point there was a discussion where a person I consider to be extremely knowledgeable said no, all the slabs were just tampered with.

[glynparson]

I have heard Both. I am
Honestly not sure. It wasn't to hard to crack the old slabs cleanly so that may have been possible.

[pokerplyr80]

I saw this one too and assumed it was fake, but decided to take him up on his offer to end the auction early for the right price. I offered 35k and accepted his counter offer of 37, still assuming this was some kind of a scam.

This was his response outside of ebay:

Ok, here is the deal. I can end the auction and sell it to you. I request $7000 deposit into my bank account until you get the card. After you verify it, send me the rest. I am using bank transfer for this transaction at this price. Thanks!

He did not respond to my request to place the funds in an escrow account until the card could be verified by PSA.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I saw this one too and assumed it was fake, but decided to take him up on his offer to end the auction early for the right price. I offered 35k and accepted his counter offer of 37, still assuming this was some kind of a scam.

This was his response outside of ebay:

Ok, here is the deal. I can end the auction and sell it to you. I request $7000 deposit into my bank account until you get the card. After you verify it, send me the rest. I am using bank transfer for this transaction at this price. Thanks!

He did not respond to my request to place the funds in an escrow account until the card could be verified by PSA.

Since you knew already it was fake, or should have, what was the point, just to see how he would react?

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Since you knew already it was fake, or should have, what was the point, just to see how he would react?

Pretty much, curiosity, and the off chance that the card was real and it was a bad picture. It took about 5 minutes of time and there wasn't much risk. I certainly wasn't going to wire him a bunch of money without verifying the card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

Pretty much, curiosity, and the off chance that the card was real and it was a bad picture. It took about 5 minutes of time and there wasn't much risk. I certainly wasn't going to wire him a bunch of money without verifying the card.

How was there even an off chance? All you have to do to find the real ones with the same cert is to look at cardtarget.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

How was there even an off chance? All you have to do to find the real ones with the same cert is to look at cardtarget.

Believe it or not I had never been to card target before today. It looks like a good resource though and I will be sure to use it in the future.

As to your question yes I knew there was virtually no chance that card was real, but I wanted to see how he would respond. I guess the same mentality that gets people to buy those obvious reprints we post here. What if?

A better question would be who is bidding 10k plus on this card? I would assume someone who is planning to just use the ebay guarantee when things don't work out.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

I saw this one too and assumed it was fake, but decided to take him up on his offer to end the auction early for the right price. I offered 35k and accepted his counter offer of 37, still assuming this was some kind of a scam.

This was his response outside of ebay:

Ok, here is the deal. I can end the auction and sell it to you. I request $7000 deposit into my bank account until you get the card. After you verify it, send me the rest. I am using bank transfer for this transaction at this price. Thanks!

He did not respond to my request to place the funds in an escrow account until the card could be verified by PSA.

even people with real mantles wont agree to those terms...they would agree to a paypal regular payment to them that you could cancel I guess later if fake..but they not going to use an escrow most of the time unless you want to pay the escrow fee at least..

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by 1952boyntoncollector

even people with real mantles wont agree to those terms...they would agree to a paypal regular payment to them that you could cancel I guess later if fake..but they not going to use an escrow most of the time unless you want to pay the escrow fee at least..

I offered to pay the escrow fees but I don't think that was the issue. I also offered to come pick it up in person. I would have obviously paid double what I offered or quite a bit more if I thought the seller actually had the card.

I don't have any experience buying cards in this kind of price range but I certainly wouldn't just wire money into someone's account even if I knew the card was real unless I knew something about the seller.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Just for entertainment value I am tempted to bid 50,000, let him end it early with me as high bidder, and then laugh at him.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Just for entertainment value I am tempted to bid 50,000, let him end it early with me as high bidder, and then laugh at him.

The card is at 19k now so you would be helping someone out if you put a stop to this auction.

I have never sold anything on ebay, just privately or through auction house. How long after you ship something are the funds in your account and available for withdrawal? I wonder if the plan of this kind of a seller is to cash the money out and close all associated accounts before a claim can be filed. It seems relatively easy to pad a feedback score with a bunch of cheap transactions and then go for a big score like this 52 Mantle. Very scary for collectors who don't know better.

[Rookiemonster]

Do you think PSA keeps all the old slabs ? I don't thinks . Do think they get trash 100% I do . Do think there's some low wage worker willing to sell those ?

[Topps206]

What constitutes a fake Mantle?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Here is the latest fake being offered yet again. Weird. Different account but obviously same seller. Ebay is wonderful.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...EAAOSwnH1WWxg7

[Bestdj777]

Originally Posted by Topps206

What constitutes a fake Mantle?

One that isn't real.

[Topps206]

Originally Posted by Bestdj777

One that isn't real.

That's to be implied, but I can spot a fake T206. I might not be able to spot a fake Mantle. Sometimes I can tell a reprint but not always.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Variations A and B each should have some idiosyncracies that the reprints often don't have. Do a google search for how to spot a counterfeit Mantle.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Topps206

What constitutes a fake Mantle?

An interesting question in that I think the real risk to collectors will be when the people creating these fake Mantles in real or real looking PSA cases start actually using real 52 Mantle cards. Nice looking altered Mantles that can be bought for around 10k in a real PSA 6 or 7 case could go for a lot of money. What happens when one is good enough to fool a major auction house? Or a top ebay seller like PWCC or Probstein?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by pokerplyr80

An interesting question in that I think the real risk to collectors will be when the people creating these fake Mantles in real or real looking PSA cases start actually using real 52 Mantle cards. Nice looking altered Mantles that can be bought for around 10k in a real PSA 6 or 7 case could go for a lot of money. What happens when one is good enough to fool a major auction house? Or a top ebay seller like PWCC or Probstein?

If I were one of thems I would insist on a new style holder.

[pokerplyr80]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

If I were one of thems I would insist on a new style holder.

That, or an agreement that an item be sent to PSA for verification and a new holder before payment. It may get to the point where that's necessary even if buying from a major AH. Or the AH will have to do it before listing the card.

[Peter_Spaeth]

This one is very close although the flip lettering doesn't quite line up on the left hand side. Once again, that message in the same font about reserving the right to end early.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...8AAOSwAKxWXQqa

Ebay pic, and then the real one from 03 Mastro.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If you don't want his Mantle, you can opt for this flashlight, which oddly enough is in California not Philadelphia with the Mantle.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ultrafire-XM...4AAOSwcBhWWMx6

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

This one is very close although the flip lettering doesn't quite line up on the left hand side. Once again, that message in the same font about reserving the right to end early.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1952-Topps-M...8AAOSwAKxWXQqa

Ebay pic, and then the real one from 03 Mastro.

Ending an auction early if the price is met in an auction? That should be against ebay rules. And this guy is a perfect feedback and longtime ebayer. What is going on? Are these seemingly great ebayers scammers, being fooled, etc...?