the list (of criminals) is revealed

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

JC was already known as one of the Mastro shillers. The extent was not known though. I wonder who Jay Dyer is?

But he isn't listed as a Shiller at all on the list...only a consignor.

[1880nonsports]

to think the consignor was unaware of the shilling. Think that could only happen if the house had access to a maximum bid - which they apparently did - so I guess it's possible :-) Besides, I think husband of tammy copped to it.......

[h2oya311]

Originally Posted by 1880nonsports

to think the consignor was unaware of the shilling. Think that could only happen if the house had access to a maximum bid - which they apparently did - so I guess it's possible :-) Besides, I think husband of tammy copped to it.......

I never said that JC didn't know...I simply stated that he wasn't the one doing the shilling. It's pretty clear that he was in the know based on the number of times his name is associated with Jay Dyer (now working for Huggins & Scott) and Shane Mooney (anyone know who that is?).

And I missed those old posts from husbandoftammy where he fessed up. I was off the Net54 site for a long stretch during that timeframe.

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

I never said that JC didn't know...I simply stated that he wasn't the one doing the shilling. It's pretty clear that he was in the know based on the number of times his name is associated with Jay Dyer (now working for Huggins & Scott) and Shane Mooney (anyone know who that is?).

And I missed those old posts from husbandoftammy where he fessed up. I was off the Net54 site for a long stretch during that timeframe.

I believe they have testimony of Allen calling Clarke and asking if he wanted to "bump it" referring to upping the bid on one of his items. This came out a while back. I don't think Clarke has fessed up to it, but he never denied it when called on it a few times here in the recent past.

[midmo]

I ran across this article from 26 years ago while googling some of the names on the list...

http://articles.philly.com/1989-10-1...baseball-cards

One of the most revealing moments of the convention came at a seminar on ethics. In a convention that attracted 382 dealers and more than 37,000 collectors, eight people showed up to discuss moral issues.

"That pretty much tells you all you need to know about the ethics of this business," said dealer Stan Marks of Scottsdale, Ariz. "Nobody gives a damn."

[h2oya311]

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

I really see it as a conflict of interest for a grader to grade a card if that grader owns the same type of card and grade..

if POP is 1 on a card at a SGC 8 and carries a $1000+ price...I wouldn't want to see another of those cards achieve a SGC 8 for example which would double the POP and lower the value of my own card...

[Econteachert205]

I do not think it will effect clct collectors universe stock. It will not impact the core business of submissions or the registry. SGC is a different story. Anyone on the fence about which grader to use will move away from them. Maybe a small boost for beckett. The real losers will be the individual auctions involved and already mentioned.

[ezez420]

Na

[1952boyntoncollector]

Originally Posted by ezez420

Wow. This quote was when this happened to me on a Pop 2 card with me owning 1. I can only guess who owns/owned the 2nd. Wow you couldnt have said it better. A very high profile card for that matter besides.

so my comments have been useful to the net54 community I take it...yeah others like to say I rattle on....

[rsdill2]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

I don't know who he is but John Reznikoff is listed on SGC webpage under the "our staff" section with his expertise listed as "historical & political"

He's all over the document listed as both a consignor and shiller

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by rsdill2

I don't know who he is but John Reznikoff is listed on SGC webpage under the "our staff" section with his expertise listed as "historical & political"

He's all over the document listed as both a consignor and shiller

He is also a PSA expert.
http://www.psacard.com/Experts/

If you google him you will see he has had some controversy/mistaken authentications.

[The Nasty Nati]

Wow this could really hurt SGC. I'm a big fan of theirs but yikes.

[Brian Van Horn]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

Add that Goldin acquired Legendary's intellectual property including Legendary's mailing list.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

Who's keeping a tally:

Peter Calderon from Heritage
PSA's "Board of Experts" + Authenticators
Dave Forman - Owner of SGC
Kevin Keating of Quality Autographs
Ken Goldin from Goldin Auctions
TJ Schwartz of SCD
Kevin Struss of Baseball Rarities
other Net54 Members (you know who you are)

Events leading up to "the list"...

REA president retires;
SGC moves to Florida;
Leon sells collection

Okay, the first and last ones are probably a stretch...just sayin'

Moving post this forward.

I know most of you guys have thousands, maybe hundereds of thousands tied up in your collection. But this hits us lower grade collectors too.

My $100 card is the same as your $1000 when you consider expendable income.

Personally, the SGC news bothers me most. They are who I use (I have a T206 sub there now). I'm kinda rattled with all this information that has come to light.
And, ironically, when I pulled this page up, an ad that said "Trust SGC" was at the top.

To the two that has come forward and told their story, I thank you. What you did was unethical, but you aren't running from it.

But, from what I've read, it's like being shown pictures of your wife in bed with another man, and being told:
I can explain.
It's not what it looks like.
It didn't mean anything.

Wrong is wrong and you have to pay the consequence. Whatever that turns out to be.

[boneheadandrube]

Originally Posted by xplainer

Moving post this forward.

I know most of you guys have thousands, maybe hundereds of thousands tied up in your collection. But this hits us lower grade collectors too.

My $100 card is the same as your $1000 when you consider expendable income.

Personally, the SGC news bothers me most. They are who I use (I have a T206 sub there now). I'm kinda rattled with all this information that has come to light.
And, ironically, when I pulled this page up, an ad that said "Trust SGC" was at the top.

To the two that has come forward and told their story, I thank you. What you did was unethical, but you aren't running from it.

But, from what I've read, it's like being shown pictures of your wife in bed with another man, and being told:
I can explain.
It's not what it looks like.
It didn't mean anything.

Wrong is wrong and you have to pay the consequence. Whatever that turns out to be.

You'll be over all this in a month.

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by boneheadandrube

You'll be over all this in a month.

No sir, I won't. Some, maybe most, might be. But the memory remains.

[steve_a]

An xls version of the Govt's Exhibit for those looking for an easier format

[Fred]

Great spread sheet. It only makes me sicker to be able to sort this and see the involvement of each individual.

I wonder how many shill bidders will show up to the next National.... probably all that can because they'll have no remorse or some story indicating their innocence.

[conor912]

Originally Posted by xplainer

But, from what I've read, it's like being shown pictures of your wife in bed with another man, and being told:
I can explain.
It's not what it looks like.
It didn't mean anything.

Wrong is wrong and you have to pay the consequence. Whatever that turns out to be.

You can rest assured that if I ever sleep with any of your wives, I won't be able to explain and it'll be exactly what it looks like

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by conor912

You can rest assured that if I ever sleep with any of your wives, I won't be able to explain and it'll be exactly what it looks like

No humor allowed. Post reported.

[Stonepony]

Originally Posted by conor912

You can rest assured that if I ever sleep with any of your wives, I won't be able to explain and it'll be exactly what it looks like

"Wives"? You mean there's no limit??

[slidekellyslide]

Originally Posted by h2oya311

But he isn't listed as a Shiller at all on the list...only a consignor.

It's pretty obvious if you are consignor and the shiller is the same guy on every one of your consigned lots that there is a conspiracy to shill by the consignor.

And I've now seen information that his shill bidder possibly works for another auction house.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

It's pretty obvious if you are consignor and the shiller is the same guy on every one of your consigned lots that there is a conspiracy to shill by the consignor.

And I've now seen information that his shill bidder possibly works for another auction house.

He is listed on Huggins' website.

N. & Cent. Fla/S. Ga Rep:
Jay Dyer

[Stonepony]

http://m.nydailynews.com/sports/more...ticle-1.121333

My brain is hanging upside down..

[Bpm0014]

Peter, Greg...it's not an easy thing to do to admit that you were wrong and messed up. I don't know either one of you, but I appreciate you guys coming forward and at least explaining your side of the story. Would have been very easy to just lay low.