the list (of criminals) is revealed

David Atkatz · #1 02-03-2016, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

When I see one of those "Let's share an auction lot" posts on Net54 I feel like that also falls under collusion.

I don't agree, Dan. If I only want part of a lot, I'm going to bid knowing that finding a buyer for what I don't want may take some time, and that I may not get near what I need. But if I know beforehand that, effectively, I've got those pieces sold, I most likely will feel free to bid a bit higher. (And that goes for my "partners." Their knowing that they are getting what they want, with the other pieces pre-sold, as it were, enables them to go higher for their particular bit.)

batsballsbases · #2 02-03-2016, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

I don't agree, Dan. If I only want part of a lot, I'm going to bid knowing that finding a buyer for what I don't want may take some time, and that I may not get near what I need. But if I know beforehand that, effectively, I've got those pieces sold, I most likely will feel free to bid a bit higher. (And that goes for my "partners." Their knowing that they are getting what they want, with the other pieces pre-sold, as it were, enables them to go higher for their particular bit.)

David,
I also dont fell that it falls under collusion. But I always said to myself when someone would post up and say hay lets partner up on this lot. And as we know many AHs look at net 54 all the time and I always said to myself wow what a wonderful way to shill up a lot that you already know has a group of buyers if one wanted to if you get what I mean!!!!!

slidekellyslide · #3 02-03-2016, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Atkatz

I don't agree, Dan. If I only want part of a lot, I'm going to bid knowing that finding a buyer for what I don't want may take some time, and that I may not get near what I need. But if I know beforehand that, effectively, I've got those pieces sold, I most likely will feel free to bid a bit higher. (And that goes for my "partners." Their knowing that they are getting what they want, with the other pieces pre-sold, as it were, enables them to go higher for their particular bit.)

There was a thread on here early last year which was started by the same Net54 member who started this thread in which he and another bidder agreed to partner up on a lot of rare Topps Hocus Focus cards. The lot sold for $10,000 and there was poor communication between the two partners and the division of the lot did not happen right away. This of course angered the guy who sat out of the bidding and he stated that he would have gone $20,000 on the lot. It all worked out in the end as one guy went on an extended vacation. But the point of all of this is that those two guys getting together on that lot clearly worked in their favor to keep the price down.

Does it always work that way? No, and I have no statistics to show which outcome is more prevalent. I understand why people do it on lots though, it has to be frustrating to see the one card you've been pining for in a lot of stuff that you don't want or need.

Runscott · #4 02-03-2016, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slidekellyslide

There was a thread on here early last year which was started by the same Net54 member who started this thread in which he and another bidder agreed to partner up on a lot of rare Topps Hocus Focus cards. The lot sold for $10,000 and there was poor communication between the two partners and the division of the lot did not happen right away. This of course angered the guy who sat out of the bidding and he stated that he would have gone $20,000 on the lot. It all worked out in the end as one guy went on an extended vacation. But the point of all of this is that those two guys getting together on that lot clearly worked in their favor to keep the price down.

Does it always work that way? No, and I have no statistics to show which outcome is more prevalent. I understand why people do it on lots though, it has to be frustrating to see the one card you've been pining for in a lot of stuff that you don't want or need.

At least they have located the card they need. Splitting a lot at the lowest price possible, through collusion, allows them each to get the one or two cards they want, plus make a larger profit when they re-sell the rest of the lot, than if they had simply bid on it fairly. The only one who loses is the consignor.

bnorth · #5 02-03-2016, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Runscott

At least they have located the card they need. Splitting a lot at the lowest price possible, through collusion, allows them each to get the one or two cards they want, plus make a larger profit when they re-sell the rest of the lot, than if they had simply bid on it fairly. The only one who loses is the consignor.

I would say there is more than one loser in that story.

sflayank · #6 02-03-2016, 08:27 PM

Splitting a lot has nothing to do with shill bidding
If theres a lot of yankees and dodgers and i collect yankees and my brother collects dodgers should we bid against each other?...thats a ridiculous comparison.
Thats why ive railed on people who put in max bids as idiots...bid once and then bid at the end..if you put in a max bid....u might not deserve to get screwed but u will...
If youre famous or well known major collector bid under your cousins name and address so the ah doesnt know u

xplainer · #7 02-03-2016, 08:36 PM

This thread makes another turn. Wow.

sflayank · #8 02-03-2016, 08:40 PM

And btw...has any one on t his board figured out why these auction houses wont go to the 15 minute rule per lot?
ITS TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PUT IN MAX BIDS SO THEY DONT HAVE TO STAY UP TIL 4AM.

sbfinley · #9 02-03-2016, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflayank

And btw...has any one on t his board figured out why these auction houses wont go to the 15 minute rule per lot?
ITS TO FORCE PEOPLE TO PUT IN MAX BIDS SO THEY DONT HAVE TO STAY UP TIL 4AM.

I get why houses close all at once. It helps bring in more bids. Plenty of times I've reached my limit on one item so I fell back to another I was watching or put an early bid in on. If those would have happened to close early the house and consignor lose money.

sflayank · #10 02-03-2016, 09:10 PM

its a total fallacy...if the auction house rules were 15 minutes per lot or even 30 minutes per lot all the bidders would know that and bid accordingly....they want you to go to sleep and put in a max bid.....PERIOD...

Runscott · #11 02-03-2016, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sflayank

Splitting a lot has nothing to do with shill bidding
If theres a lot of yankees and dodgers and i collect yankees and my brother collects dodgers should we bid against each other?...thats a ridiculous comparison.
Thats why ive railed on people who put in max bids as idiots...bid once and then bid at the end..if you put in a max bid....u might not deserve to get screwed but u will...
If youre famous or well known major collector bid under your cousins name and address so the ah doesnt know u

Thanks for laying all that knowledge on us.

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