Was Cobb really as people perceive him???

[ullmandds]

from all i have read about cobb...he was raised in a middle class family...was educated and was uber competitive. I think his racism and "brutal" demeanor has been overstated in the past. He "fought" to win...every day of his life...and I don't think he was more racist than many back in those days.

[packs]

He was actually far less racist than many back in those days. He purposely bought up tracks of land in Georgia, had them developed, and then sold housing for practically nothing to African American residents. He gave one family a house just to watch over things for him. The land was called Booker T. Washington Heights.

Here's a quote from Cobb. It is 1952 and a reporter has asked him about Jackie Robinson playing in the majors:

"Certainly it is O.K. for them to play," he said, "I see no reason in the world why we shouldn't compete with colored athletes as long as they conduct themselves with politeness and gentility. Let me say also that no white man has the right to be less of a gentleman than a colored man, in my book that goes not only for baseball but in all walks of life.”

[bbcard1]

He was a complicated man and it is often easy to judge people too harshly using a 2016 filter to view 1920 events.

[packs]

I think a person's character and ability to feel compassion for people is something that doesn't change no matter the era or circumstances.

[trdcrdkid]

There was another bio of Cobb published last year, Tim Hornbaker's "War on the Basepaths: The Definitive Biography of Ty Cobb":

http://www.amazon.com/War-Basepaths-...dp/161321765X/

Like Leerhsen, Hornbaker takes a revisionist view in arguing that Cobb was not the horrible monster he's traditionally been depicted as (and he also slams Al Stump for his distortions), but he is less willing than Leerhsen to excuse or explain away Cobb's racism. He basically says that Cobb was certainly a racist by our modern standards, but essentially all Southern white people of that era were, and Cobb wasn't as bad as many, and wasn't nearly as bad as most people (especially Stump) have depicted him.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

There was another bio of Cobb published last year, Tim Hornbaker's "War on the Basepaths: The Definitive Biography of Ty Cobb":

http://www.amazon.com/War-Basepaths-...dp/161321765X/

Like Leerhsen, Hornbaker takes a revisionist view in arguing that Cobb was not the horrible monster he's traditionally been depicted as (and he also slams Al Stump for his distortions), but he is less willing than Leerhsen to excuse or explain away Cobb's racism. He basically says that Cobb was certainly a racist by our modern standards, but essentially all Southern white people of that era were, and Cobb wasn't as bad as many, and wasn't nearly as bad as most people (especially Stump) have depicted him.

Dave, I think they came out on the same day! I was going to get that one as well but I got the latter. I think I will pick this one up as well. I've read almost any bio on Cobb there is to this point might as well read this one too !!! Thanks for reminding me about that one

[irishdenny]

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

I've read almost any bio on Cobb there is to this point might as well read this one too !!!

Hey There Josh...
Mr. Cobb has Always had an Intriguing Personality.
The Good and Bad, the two of me!
Aren't we all Subject to our environment?
Fir me the Man Seemed to have grown into a Gentlemen in his later life!
Bein "Mr. Charlie Hustle"(times Ten) in c1910ish, so ta Speak, along wit carryin a Tragic Youthful family event would lead anyone of us inta behavior that would, when looked back upon, cause us ta have some regret.

I know that You as the OP have asked fir others opinions...
However, it seems ta me that wit all of your due diligents inta Mr. Cobbs Life...
I fir one would Love ta hear Your Opinion of the Man.
So when You find the time.

Also, as bein an avid Matty fan...
I've Never Run Across this Story of "The Christian Gentleman" punching a fan,
Musta missed that one in its entirety. Or maybe I just firgot

Can You Point me and others wishin ta know about the Event,
where you came across this Story!?

Love ta read about it!

Thank You Kindly my Friend...

[gabrinus]

Originally Posted by trdcrdkid

There was another bio of Cobb published last year, Tim Hornbaker's "War on the Basepaths: The Definitive Biography of Ty Cobb":

http://www.amazon.com/War-Basepaths-...dp/161321765X/

Like Leerhsen, Hornbaker takes a revisionist view in arguing that Cobb was not the horrible monster he's traditionally been depicted as (and he also slams Al Stump for his distortions), but he is less willing than Leerhsen to excuse or explain away Cobb's racism. He basically says that Cobb was certainly a racist by our modern standards, but essentially all Southern white people of that era were, and Cobb wasn't as bad as many, and wasn't nearly as bad as most people (especially Stump) have depicted him.

Thank God no Northerners of that time were racist......

[tbob]

He basically says that Cobb was certainly a racist by our modern standards, but essentially all Southern white people of that era were, .[/QUOTE]

Oh come on. Essentially all? Give me a break. Many Southerners were no more racist than Northerners in that era. Read some books about Northern soldiers and their attitudes toward African Americans. Most went to war not to free the slaves but to reunite the country and put down the rebellion. Plus don't forget that over 95% of Confederate soldiers never owned a single slave nor did their families. This was the Second War of Independence for many Southerners whose grandfathers fought in the Revolutionary War.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Hank I think he is still trying to open the museum but I really don't know for sure, he is nice but tough to get in contact with.

The location is there with great signage but the building is empty so I don't know for sure. I have not spoken with him is about nine months and only met him a couple of times. I hope it works out for him.

We have an extensive Historic Baseball Trail and the documentary which is really cut down for today's showing is neat. We can track visitors through smart phone contact and the Trail draws in about 600-700visitors a month in the off season and many more in the summer months.

We have a tremendous baseball community with a neat sense of history. I just got back from the first seven races at Oaklawn so that I can watch it! Plus I was losing today.

[mattsey9]

.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by tbob

Oh come on. Essentially all? Give me a break. Many Southerners were no more racist than Northerners in that era. Read some books about Northern soldiers and their attitudes toward African Americans. Most went to war not to free the slaves but to reunite the country and put down the rebellion. Plus don't forget that over 95% of Confederate soldiers never owned a single slave nor did their families. This was the Second War of Independence for many Southerners whose grandfathers fought in the Revolutionary War.

I participate sparingly on a Civil War forum, and it's incredible how blind people are today when it comes to racial attitudes in the past. First we inflict today's standards on people living in the past, then we inflict our wishes on people from the past who we wish had been something that they weren't. As a whole, the South (and the North);i.e- the entire U.S.A., in Cobb's time, was racist compared to today. As a whole, Cobb was racist even back then. All the wishing in the world isn't going to change the past. You learn and move forward.

[Runscott]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

He was a complicated man and it is often easy to judge people too harshly using a 2016 filter to view 1920 events.

Fortunately there are first-hand accounts available, such as interviews with his peers;e.g-Sam Crawford, in 'The Glory of Their Times'. There are also newspaper accounts of his behavior, so you can compare those with accounts of the behavior of other Southern baseball players to get a better idea as to whether or not his biographers were lying about him.

[bbcard1]

His late life effort at redemption and generosity paints a contrast to much of his playing days. Probably as financially farsighted as any athlete ever indicating an intellect in stark contrast to the brawler. Certainly not all that popular with his peers, which is a reliable indicator or, if nothing else, how likely you would be to enjoy having him as a guest at your dinner party.

[Hankphenom]

Originally Posted by Runscott

Fortunately there are first-hand accounts available, such as interviews with his peers;e.g-Sam Crawford, in 'The Glory of Their Times'. There are also newspaper accounts of his behavior, so you can compare those with accounts of the behavior of other Southern baseball players to get a better idea as to whether or not his biographers were lying about him.

And listening to the voices of Crawford and Davy Jones, who had seen him close up for many years, on the audio set of GOTT gives you an even better idea of what they thought of him, with stories to illustrate. On the other hand, there are others who had great respect, and in some instances affection, for Cobb. Joe Wood, for instance, called Cobb one of his very best friends. Perhaps it's fair to say that his good side could be very good while his bad side could be very bad.

[Joshchisox08]

Originally Posted by Hankphenom

And listening to the voices of Crawford and Davy Jones, who had seen him close up for many years, on the audio set of GOTT gives you an even better idea of what they thought of him, with stories to illustrate. On the other hand, there are others who had great respect, and in some instances affection, for Cobb. Joe Wood, for instance, called Cobb one of his very best friends. Perhaps it's fair to say that his good side could be very good while his bad side could be very bad.

Interesting idea. One side taken by the other was that the reason that Crawford didn't appear to like Cobb was out of spite/jealousy. Merely he stole the spotlight as the star outfielder on the team. And of course his contract being much bigger allegedly irked Crawford into jealousy as well.

The interesting thing is story goes that Cobb fought arm and leg for Crawford to be inducted into the HOF.

I remember in one chapter which it states that "THE BIG TRAIN" was a regular friend of Ty's along with another player (not on Detroit) whom I forgot. Wild Bill Donovan was one of his teammates which I remember seemed to have stuck up for him quite a bit.

TY vs The Babe................... There was a couple letters in the book which Cobb spoke very highly of him. I'm not doubting there was probably tension but I doubt that he had zero respect nor as the Tommy Lee Jones movie went gave him only credit for "Running ok for a fat man".

[ullmandds]

There is a whole book about the relationship of babe and ty and their golfing escapades and relations in the 30s and 40s and it paints a very different picture than that quote quote. You have not already read it I would highly recommend it .

Originally Posted by Joshchisox08

Interesting idea. One side taken by the other was that the reason that Crawford didn't appear to like Cobb was out of spite/jealousy. Merely he stole the spotlight as the star outfielder on the team. And of course his contract being much bigger allegedly irked Crawford into jealousy as well.

The interesting thing is story goes that Cobb fought arm and leg for Crawford to be inducted into the HOF.

I remember in one chapter which it states that "THE BIG TRAIN" was a regular friend of Ty's along with another player (not on Detroit) whom I forgot. Wild Bill Donovan was one of his teammates which I remember seemed to have stuck up for him quite a bit.

TY vs The Babe................... There was a couple letters in the book which Cobb spoke very highly of him. I'm not doubting there was probably tension but I doubt that he had zero respect nor as the Tommy Lee Jones movie went gave him only credit for "Running ok for a fat man".