1962 JELL-O Baseball Card Distribution

[keepmeposted]

Folks:

As a heads up, I have written a fluff article and collaborated with Ken Marks in assembling a first-cut table depicting 1962 JELL-O cards DEFINITIVELY assigned to the gelatin, pudding, and pie filling boxes. When I use the word
definitively, we are not talking about speculative or "looks like" conjecture, but verifiable player-to-product (PTP) appearances.

The article and table has been sent to Rich Mueller of Sports Collector's Daily, and will be published on-line in the near future. I mention this because it an opportunity for advanced collectors and dealers to contribute their expertise, with the hope that we can build a comprehensive PTP table. As 1961-63 Post and 1963 JELL-O collectors can attest, having the PTP is vital to understanding scarcities and cards tough to find.

So, for 1962 JELL-O enthusiasts, this may be an opportunity to contribute your knowledge and heighten your understanding of the planning, production, and distribution of this enigmatic set. I'll provide an update when Rich goes "live" with the article. Until then, any information or experiences you care to share would be welcome.

KEEPMEPOSTED -- or -- Keep me JELL-O'd? [Doesn't have the same "ring", does it?]

Dan

[toppcat]

Awesome news Dan, loved your Post books from a ways back, good to see you active in the literature end again.

[brian1961]

"JELL-O" Dan!

I am very thrilled you are researching and writing about the 1962 Jell-Os. Count me in as a buyer of your resulting work.

I spoke to Ken Marks some years ago when researching the Post and Jell-O for my book, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. He helped me tremendously, and if memory still serves, gave me a delicious bite of info from one of your books that you kindly allowed me to quote. Many thanks for that!!!!

Off the palabre, on to the "where were you in '62?"

I grew up in Skokie, Illinois which is a suburb of Chicago. I turned 8 during the summer of 1962. I have many rich memories of the Post Cereal baseball cards and commercials on TV. However, I also remember the JELL-Os from 1962, with the black script player names as opposed to the blue, and the differences in the cropping and coloring of the photos used for the JELL-O.

The only major info you may want that I have, though I shared this with Ken Marks years ago, and he may have then shared with you, which is perfectly fine is that Mickey Mantle was printed on an Apple flavor box (I know---duh---that's the photo used for the Krause Standard Catalog) and Roger Maris was printed on the new Blackberry flavor that debuted in the spring of '62, when Jell-O chopped down and discontinued their apple flavor. I am certain of the above because I own the boxes of which I mention. For what it's worth I prize and value them very highly as drop dead gorgeous box card art with the utmost eye appeal, display value, and as conversation pieces!

I have known for a long time, unless I've been wrong for that long time, that the '62 JELL-Os were actually a regional, test-marketed in the Chicagoland area, as well as Milwaukee. Beckett 3's entry mentions this. When I interviewed Larry Fritsch for my book, he confirmed that the set was a test issue. Larry was from Wisconsin, as we all know, but he worked at that time on the railroad, on a line that went back and forth from Wisconsin to Chicago. I mention this because when his train stopped at the end of its line in Chicago, he would make a quick stop to the area grocers and scour their shelves for any JELL-O baseball boxes he didn't have.

Wish I had more to give you, though I'm saving a "not so wonderful" childhood memory which I have included in my book.

Thanks again Dan for researching this set, and all you've done. I hope to some day purchase several of your books. I lost track of your contact info.

Take care. ---Brian Powell

[keepmeposted]

Hi, Brian and Dave.

Great to hear from you. As you gentlemen know, the 1962 JELL-O baseball promotion has been frustrating me for decades. As my "fluff" article will demonstrate, I have exploited virtually every avenue available to get a morsel of data on the planning, allocation scheme, printing, and distribution of the set. The JELLO museum curator in Leroy, NY, American JELL-O collector's club, Philip Morris/Kraft/General Foods/JELL-O corporate masters, Young and Rubicam (advertising agency), photographer (Art Shay), Dover, Delaware production facility, and surviving Post art department architects, have absolutely no information to offer. The only thing my relentless search has done is offer laughter to those contacted, and a casual "Let me know what you find out" salutation.

One thing that is particularly intriguing is the fact that the General Foods (including Post and JELL-O) art department contacts have no recollection of exchanging any 1962 photos, text, or copy art with either the Leroy,NY or Canadian subsidiary of Post headquarters. In an interview with Art Shay, he went on record to say he never received any compensation for use of photos taken for the 1962 Canadian or JELL-O baseball card sets.

While living in Southern California, I frequented a card shop owned by Jeff Goldstein. The store was named the Shortstop Sports Stop, located off Washington Blvd in Culver City. I would get into heavy conversations about the Post cereal with Jeff. If my memory serves correctly, he was prominent in the early hobby days in the Detroit environs as a game used uniform expert. He also told me he had been in the printing business. Where I'm going with this, is he told me the 1962P Canadian had been printed in the Great Lakes area based on the higher quality printing processes in the United States. Then, the sheets (boxes?) were shipped to the North. I wonder -- Is it possible that General Foods struck a deal with Midwest connections to orchestrate both the 1962P Canadian and 1962J "test" promotions?

There is no question that the 1962P Canadian baseball promotion was far more robust than the 1962J baseball "test". I'm just wondering if somebody in Chicago or Kalamazoo is sitting on some information that can be mined. At best, I figure we have less than 5 years to find a living human being who was tangentially involved in either promotion.

As a get-off-the-stage comment, I was sent a 3x5 color photo of a 1962 JELL-O paste-up/copy art board in 1997. It was a board depicting about 100 copy art frames, devoid of player color photos and some of the text copy missing. The item was very hard to see, in part because the photo was taken in a backyard and the sunlight glare bleached a lot of the detail. The item showed the cardboard poster board cover, similar to the 1963 Post and 1963 JELL-O copy art auctioned by Lelands in 2002. I never saw the 1962J copy art offered in the hobby, and regrettably, it is the only glossy photo I cannot find in my research and archive library. If I could have read or examined the front cover, it would have identified the location, stock number, and copy art preparation agent. I'll bet it's still out there somewhere ... hopefully not being used as an oil drip board in a garage in Davenport. [BIG SMILE!]

[toppcat]

Well if it's Great Lakes printers you are after, I would look at Strecher-Traung Lithographers of Rochester, NY. I suspect they did overflow work for Topps in the 1960's and it would not surprise me if they printed cards for other firms.

I would have to check but the laws in Canada may have allowed US items to be shipped in and sold in Canada if "manufactured" in Canada until about 1970. The product may have been all that required manufacturing, not the box.

There are rumors of 1954-55 Topps hockey sheets being shipped to OPC in London, Ontario via Detroit so I daresay anything is possible.

[quitcrab]

Not jello. But a pretty cool Post piece

[quitcrab]

[keepmeposted]

I promised to let the community know when the article on 1962 JELL-O distribution was published. Rich Mueller dropped me a note to say that the piece is now "live" on Sports Collectors Daily.

The article is entitled, "The 1962 JELL-O Baseball Card Set: Wobbles, Gobbles and Bobbles". In particular, Ken Marks and I are looking forward to receiving your input on confirmed player-to-product allocations.

As you read the article, please note that Rich Mueller has inserted some boxes depicting cards and the 1962 JELL-O Mickey Mantle in-store promotion poster. These are items in his collection.

KEEPMEPOSTED!

Dan

[Kenmarks]

Brian--Ken Marks here. Hope you are doing well. I read your note here and was wondering if I might ask a question. Related to the Maris Jello box you own which is blackberry flavor. which size is it. Assume it is the small 3 oz box, but want to make sure. Thanks!!!!!!!

[brian1961]

Hiya Ken Marks! So good to hear from you, my friend! I'm doing just fine and truly hope you are as well.

To answer your question, yes, my 1962 JELL-O Roger Maris blackberry box is of the three-ounce variety. I even went to my safe and finally got it out to confirm. I don't know if you happened to view the other unfolded box I am very privileged to own, but to give you an idea of what it looks like, there was a thread started late last year on the postwar section, post-1980 cards. It should have been put in the pre-1980 postwar, but it is what it is. The thread was entitled, "Box Design Cards". If you look at the listing in that section of the forum, it is at least one page of threads back. My son mind you, was able to sequester an image from my forthcoming book on postwar regionals and load it up to that thread. The actual photo on the CD book is even clearer, but my point is that the Roger Maris box looks the same as the Mantle.

I've said this before, but I will always be extremely grateful to you for taking the time and trouble to make exquisite color copies for me of the 1963 Post Cereal backsides that offered among its free prizes the cards of Mr. Mantle & Mr. Maris. They were used as perfect accouterments for the photo I staged of my chapter on the 1963 Post Cereal.

Would love to talk with you on the phone some time. I don't know how to send a PM on this chat forum; that's why this response may seem a bit personal. Trust I'm not offending you. Take care, my friend.

Respectfully, Brian Powell

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by brian1961

Hiya Ken Marks! So good to hear from you, my friend! I'm doing just fine and truly hope you are as well.

To answer your question, yes, my 1962 JELL-O Roger Maris blackberry box is of the three-ounce variety. I even went to my safe and finally got it out to confirm. I don't know if you happened to view the other unfolded box I am very privileged to own, but to give you an idea of what it looks like, there was a thread started late last year on the postwar section, post-1980 cards. It should have been put in the pre-1980 postwar, but it is what it is. The thread was entitled, "Box Design Cards". If you look at the listing in that section of the forum, it is at least one page of threads back. My son mind you, was able to sequester an image from my forthcoming book on postwar regionals and load it up to that thread. The actual photo on the CD book is even clearer, but my point is that the Roger Maris box looks the same as the Mantle.

I've said this before, but I will always be extremely grateful to you for taking the time and trouble to make exquisite color copies for me of the 1963 Post Cereal backsides that offered among its free prizes the cards of Mr. Mantle & Mr. Maris. They were used as perfect accouterments for the photo I staged of my chapter on the 1963 Post Cereal.

Would love to talk with you on the phone some time. I don't know how to send a PM on this chat forum; that's why this response may seem a bit personal. Trust I'm not offending you. Take care, my friend.

Respectfully, Brian Powell

To send a PM or email click on the persons user name in the top left corner of one of their posts and you will get a drop down with several options.

[brian1961]

Thanks, Ben. It would be a gross understatement to say I'm not the brightest crayon in the box when it comes to today's social media. Again, I sincerely thank you for the primer on sending a pm on our message board. ---Brian Powell

[hcv123]

Hi,

I own the original art boards for the 1963 Jello set - it has the flavors listed on the outside of the boards. Would that be helpful to anyone here?
I met the company employee who originally owned the art for the 63 Jello and most of the 1962 Post cereal set. Tried to do a deal for them many years ago - he thought they were worth WAY more than I did. They ended up in auction 10 years later where I won the Jello set and 1962 Post Clemente art board. They are TOO cool - all original photographs taken for the issue - I will likely be breaking the Jello set and selling individual boards soon if anyone here has interest. Be well.

-Howard

[hcv123]

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...17#post1393317

[Kenmarks]

Brian--Been a member of this site for maybe a year, but not that good at understanding how it works or finding things. Just now saw your reply to my note. Only maybe 6 weeks later. First thanks for confirming the 3 oz Maris box. There was a Lew Lipset ad a long time ago where he was selling a box (the one you have??), but none of the sizes were disclosed in the ad. Related to that 62 Jello project that Dan had written about, I think we have made some significant progress in identifying additional boxes that different players appeared on and imagine down the line, Dan will be updating the listing. If you are interested right now, believe that at a minimum, Mantle appeared on small Apple jello, Butterscotch pudding and Chocolate pudding boxes. Maris appeared on small Blackberry jello, small Apple jello, Coconut pudding and Chocolate pudding boxes.

Put me down on your mailing list when you finish and publish your Not Cheaper by the Dozen book. Sounds great and of significant interest to me. So I am in!!!

Lastly contact information. Ken Marks (916) 508 7872

Hopefully we can talk here in the future. Have a great Easter. Good night.

[brian1961]

Greetings Ken and a very happy and meaningful Easter to you and your family as well. Thank you, friend.

So glad to hear of the significant progress being made on the project covering the 1962 Jell-O baseball card set. When I give you a buzz some time soon, I'll divulge all the details of my acquiring the Roger Maris JELL-O box. This much I will tell you, it was not Lew Lipset, nor through the massive pages of a Sports Collectors Digest. No big secret--it was a show.

I'm gratified you're interested in my book. Maybe I'll do a little bit better than break even on that; I hope so, as much time and money as I poured into the venture.

Ken, you will love Net54 baseball forum. The Prewar side is by far the most active; however, as you become more adroit, my friend, at navigating this beautiful web site, you will find so much of interest. Plus, with your Einstein brain of Postwar knowledge, particularly among the General Foods issues, I just know the Postwar side will be taking a quantum leap forward towards reaching parity with the Prewar side. We're in no competition, however. It's all good, honest enjoyment.

Please note closely any recent threads (individual entries or topics of discussion) on Post Cereal commercials. They are great, and if perchance you've never seen them, they're a good reason why a BAH HUMBUG TO THE INTERNET type of guy needs to see what he's missing!

Lastly, check the current Robert Edward Auctions. They're offering a 1962 JELL-O Mickey Mantle complete box in the small size Apple variety. The original consumer, probably a mama, removed the gelatin package long ago to prepare it for her family. However, most importantly, the free prize card, along with the rest of the box, was saved to this day. It's lot number 607; opening at a mere 500 bucks, it's up to 6 bids and a grand at the moment. Twenty days to go...... Imagine---the rarest flavor and it's a complete box. Then again, "the rarest flavor" only becomes pertinent when it's an entire box anyway. What an opportunity!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is that kind of time when the opportunity is about as rare as the item, and one shouldn't think about if another might be offered any time soon. Nuf' said; I better shut up.

Have a blessed Resurrection Day celebration! ---Your collecting compadre, Brian Powell

[keepmeposted]

Hello, Fellow Post and JELL-O enthusiasts.

I thought you would enjoy seeing the original copy art from the NEVER PRODUCED 1963 JELL-O 3 oz cherry paste-up depicting Hammerin' Hank's little brother in the photo frame. I also own the original copy art of the same error that, in part, may have contributed to the 1963 Post 15 ounce Oat Flakes boxes being withdrawn and never distributed. Please note that the "X" on Tommie's face is a black grease pencil application to the clear vellum placed over the cut-and-paste layers of text/frame and Kodachrome photos.

KEEP ME POSTED!

Dan

[hoot-owl]

Dan--

I also wonder if the Post/Jello artists "messed up" when they replaced this photo. Off the top of my head--Hank's photo is the only one in the 1963 Post/jello sets that are sized differently.

Love your books....

peter mead

[keepmeposted]

Hi, Peter!

Thank you for the comments. Having read POSTAGE DUE and the other monographs, you understand the chaos that ensued in Battle Creek when last minute errors were spotted.

Your comment about the exploded view of the Hank Aaron photo is intriguing, and it is quite interesting (to me) to realize that the same Art Shay photograph was used for all of the 1961-63 Post and 1962-63 JELL-O sets. Having said that, the photo used for production of the 1963 Post is a zoom shot that is consistent with the "portrait" photos that earmark that particular set. In contrast, you are right on target in noting that the Aaron paste-up for the 1963 JELL-O reverted to the body shot appearing on all of the other GF sets. Based on my interviews with Bill Betts and Howard Slutz regarding the Post cereal promotions, I can well imagine that there was a mad scramble in Leroy, Dover, and/or White Plains when the art departments (or Y&R) were trying to find Hank Aaron Kodachrome prints to supplant the Tommie Aaron shot.

Tomorrow, I'll post the likeness of the 1963 Post Hank Aaron "error" card showing precisely how it would have appeared on 15 ounce Oat Flakes.

Thanks again for your friendship, encouragement, and contributions to the Post and JELL-O baseball card legacy.

Keep me Posted!

Dan

[skil55voy]

Dan, An Ed Bouchee 1962 Jello card recently sold on ebay and there was enough of the box to identify it as Cherry. It looked to be a 6oz box. I have added it to my list of 62 Jello.

[Bob Lemke]

Coincidentally, I just found this reprint of an Ad Age article in reading thru the 1962 TSN microfilms.

400 million '62 Jell-O cards? Really?


May 9, 1962 The Sporting News

“General Foods Taking Cuts in Baseball Card Field”

Advertising Age, National Advertising Weekly: “Come this summer, the bubble set will be swapping two Mickey Mantes for one Roger Maris – off the back of a box of Post cereals, or Jell-O.”
“Post division of General Foods has gone into the baseball card business in a big way. In fact, its projected 1962 output of 800,000,000 cards is just about as many as Frank H. Fleer Corp., of Philadelphia, Pa., will circulate among small fry via bubble gum packs. But Fleer and its arch rival, Topps Chewing Gum Co., Brooklyn, N.Y., balked at the suggestion that Post might steal their seasonal thunder.
“Post’s big league jump into baseball this year came with a page in the April 13 issue of Life. The ad offered free baseball cards printed on the backs of 12 Post cereals that are sold nationwide. Protruding from the gutter of the page was a four-color insert imprinted with the first two cards to get the kids started. The heroes: Sluggers Maris and Mantle.
“The Life ad is the only print page which Post cereals has on tap this season. Bt the rest of the push—all TV announcements—is pretty hefty compared with Post’s drive in 1961, when it used TV sparingly (no magazines) and printed 400,000,000 cards. This year, for 15 weeks, the company had its agency, Benton & Bowles, line up 20, 40, and 60-second commercials on 240 stations in top markets. Messrs. Mantle and Maris are on deck for the announcements, as are Pitcher Whitey Ford and his son.
“In addition, Post is armed with heavy in-store promotion to back the drive. It will use whirl-around displays, over-wire pennants (with team names), “humorous” player cutouts, stick displays, banners and shelf talkers. To show dealers how they should work with these tools, Post has issued a 60-page merchandising guide.
“Post will print anywhere from three to seven cards on each of the 12 cereal packages, totaling 96 card panels. Some 200 different major leaguers will be rotated on the panels so that, regardless of which Post cereal a family buys, “each youngster can acquire a full set.” The players are split up evenly among the 20 teams in the National and American Leagues (‘although’ a General Foods man admitted to Advertising Age, ‘spring training swaps kind of threw this balance out of kilter’).
“On the Jell-O front, General Foods has just started testing baseball cards in Chicago for its Jell-O gelatin products and regular, small-size pudding. One card appears on the back panel of each package. Thus far, media buys for this test have been confined to Sunday comic sections and some TV announcements through the Jell-O agency, Young & Rubicam. General Foods declined to say whether it would expand the ball cards promotion to other products.
Under an arrangement the company made with Frank Scott, a New Yorker who represents ball players in such transactions, Post has the rights to use a total of 500 players. It made the same deal with Mr. Scott last year. He declined to spell out how much each player will receive. ‘I don’t think it would be fair to General Foods to disclose this,’ he said.
The gum marketers, who have had a promotional stranglehold on baseball cards for decades, for the most part appeared undisturbed—officially—over Post’s move. Melvin Poretz, advertising manager of Topps, said that General Foods’ Post Division is ‘operating in an altogether different field; our rights lie in the confectionery area.’ Topps, he said, is delighted that the ball players have a chance to make some extra money.
“Raymond Beck, Fleer’s director of marketing, termed Post’s action ‘still new.’ He said Fleer is watching it closely, but doesn’t know how it may affect the company. ‘This season will us the story,’ he opined. Besides baseball cards, Fleer backs football and basketball cards with its gum (five per pack) in other seasons.
“The two gum companies were embroiled in a wrangle about ten months ago. Topps was offering a player $125 a year, plus a $75 bonus on a two-year renewal, for the privilege of using his picture, batting average and other statistics on its cards. Fleer, on the other hand, said it was also paying players $125 a year, or five per cent of gross profits—divided among all the players involved—but also would ‘pick up the tab’ for any money the players lost by not signing an exclusive contract with Topps.”

[AustinMike]

Bob, my take on the article is that 400,000,000 million Post cereal cards were printed in 1961 and that 800,000,000 cards (Post and Jello combined) would be printed in 1962. I'm sure more Post cards were printed in 1962 than 1961, which would leave less than 400.000.000 Jello cards printed. Based on the current availability of 1962 Post cards compared to 1961 Post cards, I would guess that Jello card production was much less than 100,000,000. Pretty interesting article. I hope you find one for the 1963 set as well.

[toppcat]

That figure for 1962 Fleer is quite unbelievable.