Post a Stupid Question - Prewar 101

[mechanicalman]

I see a lot of T206 Polar Bears with tobacco staining. Is this a common trait or just a coincidence? Were they packed differently than other issues? Also, why are American Beauty borders so thin?

[xplainer]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I see a lot of T206 Polar Bears with tobacco staining. Is this a common trait or just a coincidence? Were they packed differently than other issues? Also, why are American Beauty borders so thin?

PB's were packaged in raw tobacco packs..in contact with the tobacco.
The others were in a side pocket of the cigarette pack.

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by xplainer

PB's were packaged in raw tobacco packs..in contact with the tobacco.
The others were in a side pocket of the cigarette pack.

I knew there had to be a reason. Thank you for the explanation, xplainer.

[mechanicalman]

While we are still in a judgement-free zone, another question:

Why are Exhibits so relatively affordable? I assumed it was a pop issue, but consider this: PSA has graded 158 DiMaggio 39-46 Exhibits and over 1000 39 Play Ball DiMaggios. The SMR of a Play Ball PSA 5 is roughly 5x the price of the Exhibit. And in my opinion, the Exhibit is so much better looking (less toothy.) Any hypotheses are welcome.

[Snapolit1]

Since they are postcards some folks don't consider them to be true baseball cards.

I love them. Some of my most favorite pieces.

[Snapolit1]

Ditto for Leaf and Goudey Premiums. The Rith Goudey premium is rare and stunning, and you can buy a decent one for under $1000.

[tbob]

What do you type in the search box to keep any T206s from coming up on ebay? I'm done with the set (minus the Big 4) and I'd like to not have to scroll through a zillion t206s constantly.
How do you keep a card seller who puts his entire inventory on ebay, every week, every year, with prices so high that no one buys them, from showing up in your search? What do you type in?

Thanks, I know this was covered in the past but I missed it.

[edjs]

Originally Posted by tbob

What do you type in the search box to keep any T206s from coming up on ebay? I'm done with the set (minus the Big 4) and I'd like to not have to scroll through a zillion t206s constantly.
How do you keep a card seller who puts his entire inventory on ebay, every week, every year, with prices so high that no one buys them, from showing up in your search? What do you type in?

Thanks, I know this was covered in the past but I missed it.

type in what you want to search for, then a space, then "-t206" or the minus sign and what ever you don't want to search for.

Brian, that is a great answer. At least I know they aren't really proofs, just called that. I can live with that.

[CardboardCollector]

Great thread. Ok, I think I have figured out all the BST abbreviations correctly identified.

FS - for sale
WTB - wanted to buy
WTTF - wanted to trade for
FT - for trade

Are there others that I am missing?

[trdcrdkid]

Originally Posted by CardboardCollector

Great thread. Ok, I think I have figured out all the BST abbreviations correctly identified.

FS - for sale
WTB - wanted to buy
WTTF - wanted to trade for
FT - for trade

Are there others that I am missing?

LF = looking for

[brianp-beme]

WTF? = What The Fadoodle?

Brian

[TNP777]

Originally Posted by tbob

What do you type in the search box to keep any T206s from coming up on ebay? I'm done with the set (minus the Big 4) and I'd like to not have to scroll through a zillion t206s constantly.
How do you keep a card seller who puts his entire inventory on ebay, every week, every year, with prices so high that no one buys them, from showing up in your search? What do you type in?

Thanks, I know this was covered in the past but I missed it.

Originally Posted by edjs

type in what you want to search for, then a space, then "-t206" or the minus sign and what ever you don't want to search for.

You can take that a step further with parentheses. For example, enter -(t206,t-206,"t 206"). That way you can filter out the guys who use the dash or for some weird reason put a space between the t and 206.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by edjs

type in what you want to search for, then a space, then "-t206" or the minus sign and what ever you don't want to search for.
.

Thanks Ed, so easy and yet effective.

tbob

[1880nonsports]

common to the issue, yes, the slide and shell was thinner........

[bravos4evr]

Aside from the "throwing" and "Portrait" T206 cards, are there any other old Rube Waddell cards out there? I can't seem to find even a picture of one.

[Sean]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

I see a lot of T206 Polar Bears with tobacco staining. Is this a common trait or just a coincidence? Were they packed differently than other issues? Also, why are American Beauty borders so thin?

AB borders are thinner than other T206 because the cigarette packs that they came in were more narrow than the other packs.

[mooch]

what is a pre rookie card and who decides it?

[mechanicalman]

Originally Posted by Sean

AB borders are thinner than other T206 because the cigarette packs that they came in were more narrow than the other packs.

Thank you, Sean. Makes sense.

Makes me wonder if T206 PSA 8s also came in smaller packs.

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by Sean

AB borders are thinner than other T206 because the cigarette packs that they came in were more narrow than the other packs.

There is still some debate about the American Beauty cigarette packs, as it appears there were some that were possibly wider. The following thread from awhile back discusses some possibilities, and has images of American Beauty packs.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ghlight=beauty

Brian

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by mechanicalman

Also, why are American Beauty borders so thin?

Box was narrower

[frankbmd]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

I'll bet that many of you have questions about vintage prewar cards that you are embarrassed to ask. This thread is for you. Ask a stupid question or answer someone else's stupid question. And you don't need to be a noob to participate.

If successful, this thread will be a treasure trove for new converts to prewar collecting. So without further ado, let's get started with the first question.

Were T202 Triple Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

Originally Posted by frankbmd

Since I have never seen a looooong prewar cigarette, I presume they were folded, which begs the question are all high grade T202 cards creased as a result?

The premise of this thread was to post a stupid question that you would otherwise be embarrassed to post. The presumption was that most stupid questions could be answered by the "intelligentsia" on the board quite easily in what has been rightly referred to as a "Judgement-free zone".

The questions posed have been for the most part appropriate and many answers have been given.

So why in the hell after twelve hours has my initial question been ignored. Perhaps it wasn't so stupid after all. Maybe starting out with the triple folder question was a bit presumptuous on my part, so i will ask another related question.

Were T201 Double Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

and

Are all high grade T201 cards creased as a result of their packaging?

[brianp-beme]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

The premise of this thread was to post a stupid question that you would otherwise be embarrassed to post. The presumption was that most stupid questions could be answered by the "intelligentsia" on the board quite easily in what has been rightly referred to as a "Judgement-free zone".

The questions posed have been for the most part appropriate and many answers have been given.

So why in the hell after twelve hours has my initial question been ignored. Perhaps it wasn't so stupid after all. Maybe starting out with the triple folder question was a bit presumptuous on my part, so i will ask another related question.

Were T201 Double Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

and

Are all high grade T201 cards creased as a result of their packaging?

Wish I could help you Frank...I can only answer slow-pitch softball questions.

Brian

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

since they were indeed folded in the packs, and it was a machine fold, I don't believe they are technically considered creases. What does often happen is that the hinge (what the intelligentsia call the crease) wears on the edges of the cards the more it is used and you get a notching effect on the borders. In my experience this is what can really damage the grade of an otherwise appealing T201 or T202.

[Paul S]

Frank, I can't answer your question, but...

Why are T202 Hassan named Triple Folders when they only have 2 folds?
Why are they not called Hassan Triptychs?
Why do I occasionally see them with a center crease?
Why do people cut them in thirds and sell the pieces on ebay?(Hi Brian)

Are strip cards naked?

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

The premise of this thread was to post a stupid question that you would otherwise be embarrassed to post. The presumption was that most stupid questions could be answered by the "intelligentsia" on the board quite easily in what has been rightly referred to as a "Judgement-free zone".

The questions posed have been for the most part appropriate and many answers have been given.

So why in the hell after twelve hours has my initial question been ignored. Perhaps it wasn't so stupid after all. Maybe starting out with the triple folder question was a bit presumptuous on my part, so i will ask another related question.

Were T201 Double Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

and

Are all high grade T201 cards creased as a result of their packaging?

Frank,

Mecca cigarettes were about as long as camel unfiltered. Do they still sell unfiltered cigarettes in the U. S.? But I digress... The cards came folded and that fold can greatly affect the quality of the card. Think chipping and wear on a typical card. I asked about this a few years back in a discussion with Earl, formerly the Customer Service guru at SGC (hey, Earl, what is up). His comments are what you would expect for a standard card with the caveat to pay attention to the condition of the fold.

As for the fold, it is quite evident on higher graded T 201's, but much cleaner, obviously created by machine in the print and coalation process, with a smoother surface. And yes, the condition of the back of the card, especially the fold, will have an impact on grading.

I have a question about T201. The cards were printed at two locations, factory 30 and 649. Which location represents a scarcer card, and why doesn't anyone collect by factory location on these cards like we see on T205, T206, T207?

[LuckyLarry]

Thanks Frank!
outlier: someone who is different or far from a main or related body.
Larry

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by LuckyLarry

Thanks Frank!
outlier: someone who is different or far from a main or related body.
Larry

Congrats. Statistically, being an outlier, you're a 5%er. Not sure if your local motorcycle club has a patch for that, though.

Have a great holiday weekend.

[JustinD]

Okay sorry if this crosses the streams on pre/post war...

If as in my estimates T206 was darn close to one of the highest produced sets in card history, but because of barkeeps just sweeping hundreds of them into the trash each night made scarcer by survival in theory. In 100 years does someone see junk wax held in the same regard because it is basically dumped by the ton daily? Really...who is holding junk commons?

I won't be alive to see the day, but it is something I have thought of.

My 2nd question is sadly grading based, which always brings out the TPG hating. Sorry...

Why does PSA sometimes number grade hand cut cards, but not always? I have strip and sheet cut cards with PSA numbers. The growling on BVG is that they will grade sheet cuts and the PSA guys say that with disdain, which is silly because PSA has certainly graded sheet cuts. What is the reasoning on the 50/50 standard on hand cuts with all of the TPGs honestly? It seems all of them either give a grade or an "auth", with no rhyme or reason.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Why does PSA sometimes number grade hand cut cards, but not always? I have strip and sheet cut cards with PSA numbers. The growling on BVG is that they will grade sheet cuts and the PSA guys say that with disdain, which is silly because PSA has certainly graded sheet cuts. What is the reasoning on the 50/50 standard on hand cuts with all of the TPGs honestly? It seems all of them either give a grade or an "auth", with no rhyme or reason.

If I understand correctly PSA grades certain hand cuts if they were manufactured to be cut. Imagine a card printed on the box of a food product, you likely picturing something with a dotted outline for cutting. It was manufactured to be cut by the collector, thus PSA will sometimes grade it. It's the explanation I've always heard or assume I heard. Don't really know, I'm getting old.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Okay sorry if this crosses the streams on pre/post war...

If as in my estimates T206 was darn close to one of the highest produced sets in card history, but because of barkeeps just sweeping hundreds of them into the trash each night made scarcer by survival in theory. In 100 years does someone see junk wax held in the same regard because it is basically dumped by the ton daily? Really...who is holding junk commons?

I won't be alive to see the day, but it is something I have thought of.

There are or were likely dealers that ordered more junk wax than the entire production run of T206s. Not that there weren't an awful lot of T206s made.

Even the junk stuff that was fringe sets like Signature rookies or Front Row probably produced more for one set than were made for the tougher backs. SR was usually around 45000 base sets, 1% survival would be 450 cards!

I used to save junk wax commons, then had kids and needed the space more.
There is some "junk" that's not as common as everyone thinks it is.

Steve B

[BBB]

Originally Posted by drmondobueno

Fr

As for the fold, it is quite evident on higher graded T 201's, but much cleaner, obviously created by machine in the print and coalation process, with a smoother surface. And yes, the condition of the back of the card, especially the fold, will have an impact on grading.

?

I have a partial set. All PSA. I gotta say this is the most inconsistently graded cards (set) I have encountered. The PSA 7 and 4.5 look very similar. It's all in the details of the crease I'm told. But when you look at a stack and try to blindly order them by grade, you'll see you are waaaaay off from what PSA says. Not in any particular direction either. Could be just me, but I've heard others say similar things.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by BBB

I have a partial set. All PSA. I gotta say this is the most inconsistently graded cards (set) I have encountered. The PSA 7 and 4.5 look very similar. It's all in the details of the crease I'm told. But when you look at a stack and try to blindly order them by grade, you'll see you are waaaaay off from what PSA says. Not in any particular direction either. Could be just me, but I've heard others say similar things.

That is for sure. I can tell you T201's do not cross over well between PSA and SGC. And no way can the eyeball test see the difference between a 7 and an eight without looking at a large number of either. Between a 6 and 7 it can be tough, usually corners, registration, the fold, centering. And guessing on an ungraded card? Forget it, I give up. One card I sent in came back evidence of trimming but danged if I coud see it, with or without magnification. Still, love the set.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by drmondobueno

Frank,


I have a question about T201. The cards were printed at two locations, factory 30 and 649. Which location represents a scarcer card, and why doesn't anyone collect by factory location on these cards like we see on T205, T206, T207?

They were printed in one location, I believe American Lithographic Company in NY, and were distributed from two different cigarette packing plants.

I don't know if any are tougher from one location or another.
But I think that might be the case as the plants served different distribution areas. So the player mix may have varied.

I collect most things to include factory differences. I just haven't done a whole lot with T201s yet.

Steve B