Post a Stupid Question - Prewar 101

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by frankbmd

The premise of this thread was to post a stupid question that you would otherwise be embarrassed to post. The presumption was that most stupid questions could be answered by the "intelligentsia" on the board quite easily in what has been rightly referred to as a "Judgement-free zone".

The questions posed have been for the most part appropriate and many answers have been given.

So why in the hell after twelve hours has my initial question been ignored. Perhaps it wasn't so stupid after all. Maybe starting out with the triple folder question was a bit presumptuous on my part, so i will ask another related question.

Were T201 Double Folders folded into packs at the time of distribution or were the cigarettes just longer?

and

Are all high grade T201 cards creased as a result of their packaging?

Frank,

Mecca cigarettes were about as long as camel unfiltered. Do they still sell unfiltered cigarettes in the U. S.? But I digress... The cards came folded and that fold can greatly affect the quality of the card. Think chipping and wear on a typical card. I asked about this a few years back in a discussion with Earl, formerly the Customer Service guru at SGC (hey, Earl, what is up). His comments are what you would expect for a standard card with the caveat to pay attention to the condition of the fold.

As for the fold, it is quite evident on higher graded T 201's, but much cleaner, obviously created by machine in the print and coalation process, with a smoother surface. And yes, the condition of the back of the card, especially the fold, will have an impact on grading.

I have a question about T201. The cards were printed at two locations, factory 30 and 649. Which location represents a scarcer card, and why doesn't anyone collect by factory location on these cards like we see on T205, T206, T207?

[LuckyLarry]

Thanks Frank!
outlier: someone who is different or far from a main or related body.
Larry

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by LuckyLarry

Thanks Frank!
outlier: someone who is different or far from a main or related body.
Larry

Congrats. Statistically, being an outlier, you're a 5%er. Not sure if your local motorcycle club has a patch for that, though.

Have a great holiday weekend.

[JustinD]

Okay sorry if this crosses the streams on pre/post war...

If as in my estimates T206 was darn close to one of the highest produced sets in card history, but because of barkeeps just sweeping hundreds of them into the trash each night made scarcer by survival in theory. In 100 years does someone see junk wax held in the same regard because it is basically dumped by the ton daily? Really...who is holding junk commons?

I won't be alive to see the day, but it is something I have thought of.

My 2nd question is sadly grading based, which always brings out the TPG hating. Sorry...

Why does PSA sometimes number grade hand cut cards, but not always? I have strip and sheet cut cards with PSA numbers. The growling on BVG is that they will grade sheet cuts and the PSA guys say that with disdain, which is silly because PSA has certainly graded sheet cuts. What is the reasoning on the 50/50 standard on hand cuts with all of the TPGs honestly? It seems all of them either give a grade or an "auth", with no rhyme or reason.

[sbfinley]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Why does PSA sometimes number grade hand cut cards, but not always? I have strip and sheet cut cards with PSA numbers. The growling on BVG is that they will grade sheet cuts and the PSA guys say that with disdain, which is silly because PSA has certainly graded sheet cuts. What is the reasoning on the 50/50 standard on hand cuts with all of the TPGs honestly? It seems all of them either give a grade or an "auth", with no rhyme or reason.

If I understand correctly PSA grades certain hand cuts if they were manufactured to be cut. Imagine a card printed on the box of a food product, you likely picturing something with a dotted outline for cutting. It was manufactured to be cut by the collector, thus PSA will sometimes grade it. It's the explanation I've always heard or assume I heard. Don't really know, I'm getting old.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by sbfinley

If I understand correctly PSA grades certain hand cuts if they were manufactured to be cut. Imagine a card printed on the box of a food product, you likely picturing something with a dotted outline for cutting. It was manufactured to be cut by the collector, thus PSA will sometimes grade it. It's the explanation I've always heard or assume I heard. Don't really know, I'm getting old.

I have heard this also, however I have PSA graded 1985 Topps Minis in my test collection and as these were swiped from the Topps dumpster in only sheet form and never cut, nor distributed, they are completely sheet cuts.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by JustinD

Okay sorry if this crosses the streams on pre/post war...

If as in my estimates T206 was darn close to one of the highest produced sets in card history, but because of barkeeps just sweeping hundreds of them into the trash each night made scarcer by survival in theory. In 100 years does someone see junk wax held in the same regard because it is basically dumped by the ton daily? Really...who is holding junk commons?

I won't be alive to see the day, but it is something I have thought of.

There are or were likely dealers that ordered more junk wax than the entire production run of T206s. Not that there weren't an awful lot of T206s made.

Even the junk stuff that was fringe sets like Signature rookies or Front Row probably produced more for one set than were made for the tougher backs. SR was usually around 45000 base sets, 1% survival would be 450 cards!

I used to save junk wax commons, then had kids and needed the space more.
There is some "junk" that's not as common as everyone thinks it is.

Steve B

[HercDriver]

OK, here's my question for Frank and Co:

Burdick named T206s, but I believe he did it wrong. I think there should be multiple sets, called 1909-1911 Sovereign, 1909-1911 Old Mill, 1909-1911 Tolstoi, etc. They should each be their own set.

So I guess my question is, for you believers in lumping them all together into one T206 set...does your 1978 Topps binder have OPC and Burger King cards in it? It should by that logic...

And I already know the first response will be that you don't collect 1978 cards... so that response is disallowed. I am looking for somebody to explain their logic to me.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Geno: I believe all those companies were owned by one tobacco giant, whereas Topps certainly didn't own Burger King or Zest or in later years Drake's Cakes or Coca Cola.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by HercDriver

OK, here's my question for Frank and Co:

Burdick named T206s, but I believe he did it wrong. I think there should be multiple sets, called 1909-1911 Sovereign, 1909-1911 Old Mill, 1909-1911 Tolstoi, etc. They should each be their own set.

So I guess my question is, for you believers in lumping them all together into one T206 set...does your 1978 Topps binder have OPC and Burger King cards in it? It should by that logic...

And I already know the first response will be that you don't collect 1978 cards... so that response is disallowed. I am looking for somebody to explain their logic to me.

I think the article in another thread where the writer mentioned back collecting but said the goal should be a mounted set of all the different fronts pretty much outlines the early thinking and some of the current thinking.

Personally I'd put them as individual sets but under the same major heading like some of the other sets, so T206-1, T206-2 etc. I just kNOW that would be really popular

As far as the 78s go
1) You forgot the Zest soap set
2)And the mail in team card sheet
3) Here's the sort of binder you'd need
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Casite-Autom...EAAOSwrURXPgDx

And even that uses what are really three smaller binders........



Steve B

[V117collector]

...Can you soak 1933 (R319) Goudey's to remove paper?

[BBB]

Originally Posted by drmondobueno

Fr

As for the fold, it is quite evident on higher graded T 201's, but much cleaner, obviously created by machine in the print and coalation process, with a smoother surface. And yes, the condition of the back of the card, especially the fold, will have an impact on grading.

?

I have a partial set. All PSA. I gotta say this is the most inconsistently graded cards (set) I have encountered. The PSA 7 and 4.5 look very similar. It's all in the details of the crease I'm told. But when you look at a stack and try to blindly order them by grade, you'll see you are waaaaay off from what PSA says. Not in any particular direction either. Could be just me, but I've heard others say similar things.

[drmondobueno]

Originally Posted by BBB

I have a partial set. All PSA. I gotta say this is the most inconsistently graded cards (set) I have encountered. The PSA 7 and 4.5 look very similar. It's all in the details of the crease I'm told. But when you look at a stack and try to blindly order them by grade, you'll see you are waaaaay off from what PSA says. Not in any particular direction either. Could be just me, but I've heard others say similar things.

That is for sure. I can tell you T201's do not cross over well between PSA and SGC. And no way can the eyeball test see the difference between a 7 and an eight without looking at a large number of either. Between a 6 and 7 it can be tough, usually corners, registration, the fold, centering. And guessing on an ungraded card? Forget it, I give up. One card I sent in came back evidence of trimming but danged if I coud see it, with or without magnification. Still, love the set.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by drmondobueno

Frank,


I have a question about T201. The cards were printed at two locations, factory 30 and 649. Which location represents a scarcer card, and why doesn't anyone collect by factory location on these cards like we see on T205, T206, T207?

They were printed in one location, I believe American Lithographic Company in NY, and were distributed from two different cigarette packing plants.

I don't know if any are tougher from one location or another.
But I think that might be the case as the plants served different distribution areas. So the player mix may have varied.

I collect most things to include factory differences. I just haven't done a whole lot with T201s yet.

Steve B