Question for the group regarding Hall of Fame eligibility....

[nat]

They split baseball history up into four segments, with a Vet's committee for each. They'll meet according to some arcane schedule (so they don't all meet every year, or even on a regularly rotating basis).

Did they change the way that the ballot works? If not, they're not going to start electing people. The VC had a hard time electing people because committee members could list at most four people on their ballots, and they needed 75% (IIRC) to get elected. Since the candidates that the VC looks over almost by definition don't stand out (Willie Mays gets elected before the VC gets to take a look at him), there's unlikely to be enough of a consensus among the voters to get anyone over that 75% bar. If they wanted the VC to elect people they need to drop the % requirement or let voters vote for more than four candidates.

But really, I'm okay with the VC not electing anybody. We've already got Lloyd Waner, Jesse Haines, Highpockets Kelly, George Kell, and on and on in the hall of fame. For every Lou Whitaker who really deserves it but gets passed over, there's legions of very iffy candidates whom they could (and probably would) enshrine. Cooperstown doesn't need a plaque for Carlos Zambrano (to pick a random pitcher with more WAR than Jesse Haines).

[SAllen2556]

Whitaker and Trammell are going to get in - bet on it. And when they do, I don't want to hear any whining or complaining from you guys!

[darkhorse9]

The committee will fail without a Dale Murphy selection.

[DBesse27]

Originally Posted by darkhorse9

The committee will fail without a Dale Murphy selection.

Murphy and Garvey are the 2 snubs that stand out to me. More deserving than Raines, btw.

[Johnny630]

My two are Ken Boyer and Gil Hodges, followed closely by Dick Allen and Minnie Minoso.

The boat has probably left the pier on all of these guys, who knows, it's fun to talk about :-)

[DBesse27]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

My two are Ken Boyer and Gil Hodges, followed closely by Dick Allen and Minnie Minoso.

The boat has probably left the pier on all of these guys, who knows, it's fun to talk about :-)

Minoso is a good one I forgot.

[irv]

Originally Posted by DBesse27

Minoso is a good one I forgot.

The HOF should be embarrassed, Minnie Minoso isn't gracing their walls!

It's an absolute travesty, imo that he wasn't selected years ago, let alone last year, his last chance and while he was still alive.

http://www.sportsonearth.com/article...-superstar-hof


Career highlights and awards
9× All-Star (1951–1954, 1957, 1959–1960²)
3× Gold Glove Award (1957, 1959, 1960)
3× AL stolen base leader (1951–1953)
Chicago White Sox #9 retired

[rats60]

Trammell is the only guy that really stands out to me. He should go in as soon as the Veterans Committee elects him. The problem with Whitaker is what about Grich. Garvey, what about Keith Hernandez. Munson, what about Simmons. Murphy, what about Maris. When you let in borderline guys then you start pushing the boundary down. I think it is going to happen because steroid guys aren't getting in and they need to keep electing players.

[savedfrommyspokes]

If Puckett is in with 2 WS championships during a shortened career, why in the world is Munson with 2 WS championships, a ROY and MVP not in? Okay, so Munson only averaged 13 HR/80 RBI/.292 a season vs Puckett who averaged 19 HR/99 RBI/ .318 a season, but Munson was a catcher.

[nat]

Puckett was also a not-very-good choice. In general, there are enough weak hall of fame members that the "if x is in, y should be too" argument isn't a very good one. Not even his mom thinks that Jim Bottomley should be in the hall of fame, so the fact that Don Mattingly (for example) was better than Bottomley doesn't really help his case a whole lot.

The grievous oversights, IMHO (and ignoring guys who will get in eventually and guys who are kept out because of steroids) are Trammell, Whitaker, and I've come around on Grich. There are a few older guys who are qualified, Bill Dahlen comes to mind, but I have a hard time getting worked up over them. Being good at everything but great at nothing is a good way to get the HOF to ignore you, and that's what's going on with Whitaker and (to a lesser extent) Trammell. Their all-around-skill means that they ended up being just as valuable as more one-dimensional players who were more visible in producing their value (guys like Reggie Jackson). Grich had something of the same problem. Actually, another problem that all three of these guys have is that they're middle infielders, and the voters have always had a hard time adjusting for the fact that middle infielders simply don't hit like corner guys. With the rarest of exceptions, you just can't play a position like 2B or SS at the major league level, and still hit like a first baseman.

Raines is on the short-list for second-greatest lead off hitter ever. The common comparison is with Tony Gwynn. Compare 3931 times on base for Gwynn, 3935 for Raines. Gwynn got his through hits, Raines through walks. Hits are better, they can advance runners. But Raines makes up for it with an extra 500 stolen bases at a very good rate (13th all time on rate). Fortunately, it looks like Raines gets in this year. He'll probably share the stage with Jeff Bagwell and Trevor Hoffman (!?!).

As for the new guys on the ballot, I expect Vlad to get about 50% and go in pretty quickly. Maybe take him three ballots or something. Manny will get a steroids penalty and will clog up the ballot for a decade. Hard to say what will happen with Ivan Rodriguez.

[bravos4evr]

Originally Posted by DBesse27

Murphy and Garvey are the 2 snubs that stand out to me. More deserving than Raines, btw.

Nobody is a bigger Braves fan than I, BUT, Murph's career just fell off too quickly.

Garvey has the problem of playing a position of power and not bringing much to the table. If we just look at 1b WAR since 1945,Garvey falls 40th (behind guys like McGriff, Texiera, Will Clark, Mark Grace and Giambi)

Both of their counting stats and metrics fall below guys like Raines Raines is one of the top lead off men of all time. 66.4 WAR career, (more than Murph or Garvey) 808 stolen bases too! I think voters have punished him too much for having the bad luck to play at the same time as Henderson.

That being said, I think next year's ballot gets he and Bagwell in.