HOF -> Bonds & clemens

bnorth · #1 12-31-2016, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Why was it ok to use amphetamines?

Because it was just like drinking a cup of coffee.

Seriously Peter I have seen morons use that excuse. I would say because that was their favorite era and their favorite players took them so that gives them a free pass.

Also Raymond if there was a way to prove it I would bet everything I own your list of clean players has more than 1 steroid user on it.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 12-31-2016, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

Because it was just like drinking a cup of coffee.

Seriously Peter I have seen morons use that excuse. I would say because that was their favorite era and their favorite players took them so that gives them a free pass.

Also Raymond if there was a way to prove it I would bet everything I own your list of clean players has more than 1 steroid user on it.

Ben I suppose one could make fine distinctions and say steroids are more powerful, or have a more direct effect or whatever, but turning a blind eye to the era of "greenies" whilst condemning all steroid partakers does seem a bit inconsistent.

bnorth · #3 12-31-2016, 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Ben I suppose one could make fine distinctions and say steroids are more powerful, or have a more direct effect or whatever, but turning a blind eye to the era of "greenies" whilst condemning all steroid partakers does seem a bit inconsistent.

They do different things but very similar at the same time.

Steroids let you instantly recover from insane workouts.

Amphetamines let you do insane workouts without getting tired.

Now stack the 2 so you can do insane workouts without getting tired and recovery instantly and you have a winning combination.

jiw98 · #4 12-31-2016, 01:07 PM

As long as there is competition the competitors will look for an edge. This includes PED's, greenies, sand paper, etc.
If a player cheats only once that player is still a cheater. That said how many cheaters are already in the HOF?
Just sayin

Aquarian Sports Cards · #5 12-31-2016, 01:27 PM

The best explanation I ever herd went something like this: Amphetamines were taken with the intent of being able to perform the way you normally would. Steroids were taken with the intent of performing better than you ever could.

JustinD · #6 01-02-2017, 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

The best explanation I ever herd went something like this: Amphetamines were taken with the intent of being able to perform the way you normally would. Steroids were taken with the intent of performing better than you ever could.

If you think this you should listen to Dock Ellis describe the effects and the locker room culture of the era in the No No: A Dockumentary film.

Also, if anyone thinks that steroids were non-existent in major sports in the 70s when the East Germans had a systematic doping program in place since 73' is delusional to me. The money and importance of performance was enough to have had players experiment, esp after the 76 Olympics. Lyle Alzado was open about taking them his entire career starting in college in 1969'. If a college kid could find them, a Pro sure as heck could. Yes, not saying they did, but The Mick, Clemente and even Aaron all had ample opportunity.

Hell, Pud Galvin is the first admitted anabolic juicer in 1889!

CMIZ5290 · #7 01-02-2017, 05:23 PM

I think neither should be, but I will add this. The enhancement received by Bonds was staggering compared to Clemens. Bonds's head looked like a pumpkin in his steroid years, and his body was twice the size when he was younger. When Clemens was 20 yrs old, he was leaner and struck out 20 in a game. Both have question marks, but Bonds is a much larger issue IMO compared to what his career would have been without the huge help....

steve B · #8 12-31-2016, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

They do different things but very similar at the same time.

Steroids let you instantly recover from insane workouts.

Amphetamines let you do insane workouts without getting tired.

Now stack the 2 so you can do insane workouts without getting tired and recovery instantly and you have a winning combination.

The way steroids was explained to me by an ex weightlifter/wrestler (Who claimed to be clean ) Was very close to that. He said that they made the recovery quick enough that you could work out pretty hard every day instead of needing light days or days off, essentially doubling or tripling your training time.

Steve B

hysell · #9 12-31-2016, 03:12 PM

So {ALL} HOFers that didn"t play vrs blacks,how great can there stat"s be?They were great only vrs {WHITE} players!So let's throw there stats out ,to!Then there is not many HOFers left! I do not think Jim Thome or Griffey used,if Griffey did, it just didn"t work for all the years he missed,did it!Robert.

dgo71 · #10 12-31-2016, 03:19 PM

Again, in my mind the arguement isn't amphetamines versus steroids, or the spitball or whatever form of cheating comes up. My arguement is that whether or not people already inducted cheated, why exacerbate the problem by admitting more cheaters? Nobody ever claimed Mantle, Mays, etc were cheaters prior to their election. That came up years later. So if we'd like to address that problem, then we need to discuss baseball deciding to get in the business of stripping awards and achievements, a la the Olympic committee. Since that is never going to happen, the issue really is do we continue to elect cheaters even with the benefit of hindsight.

EvilKing00 · #11 12-31-2016, 03:22 PM

I think both should get in.

Heres a letter i wrote a while back to the hof

http://metsmerizedonline.com/2014/01...-of-fame.html/

clydepepper · #12 12-31-2016, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnorth

Because it was just like drinking a cup of coffee.

Seriously Peter I have seen morons use that excuse. I would say because that was their favorite era and their favorite players took them so that gives them a free pass.

Also Raymond if there was a way to prove it I would bet everything I own your list of clean players has more than 1 steroid user on it.

I know if I had my future and my reputation linked to the 'extras' I knowingly took, I would also use some of my Big Money on the very best masking agents available.

But, if you gain forty pounds of fat-free muscle after the age of 35, something's definitely not right.

Another important point - which shouldn't matter, but does - Hall of Fame elections are also popularity contests....and we are talking about two of the all-time biggest jerks. There will be no biographies of these guys long after they're dead saying that they were, in fact, not that bad. These were two arrogant bastards who feel they are better than the Game.

How many times does that lesson have to be learned?

.

View Poll Results: Would u vote bonds and or clemens into hof?
Yes both for hof	36	43.90%
Only bonds for hof	4	4.88%
Only clemens for hof	3	3.66%
Neither	39	47.56%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

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